5 ms·

App stores are also used for money laundering. Create a bogus app, spend a bunch of money "buying" your app and now you have "legitimate" money.

by mrep 7y ago

Trias11 7y ago
I guess it will work well to launder $50.00
- troymc 7y ago
  I wasn't familiar with schemes that use app stores for money laundering so I did some basic web searches and it seems it can been used to launder more than $50.00. Here is one example: https://complyadvantage.com/blog/blog-money-laundering-via-app-purchases/ https://complyadvantage.com/blog/blog-money-laundering-via-a... Just to be clear: I don't condone money laundering and I don't suggest you do it!
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - bjhkx 7y ago
    >Then set up a MongoDB database to automatically generate Apple store accounts to create game accounts, Anybody without a technical background could read this and think that MongoDB is some kind of Apple accounts generator software.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    Is this really money laundering though? No attempt is made to obscure the source of the money. This looks very much like standard credit card fraud to me.
    - wil421 7y ago
      Pretend I’m a scammer. Buy 10,000 CC#s in bulk. Most are bunk but I’ll buy iTunes gift cards with the good ones. Then I make clean money on the developer side. Maybe I’ll use gift cards to buy gift cards to buy gift cards. Now take this and have an organization doing it. They probably pay people across the world to get the gift cards they use.
      - ryanlol 7y ago
        I’m sure a prosecutor could fit in a money laundering charge too, but I still find it weird to call this money laundering. The goal here isn’t to obscure the source of the money, the goal is to monetize credit card fraud. Nobody would actually use iTunes to launder money, the fees are simply too high. >Then I make clean money on the developer side. That money is not clean. >Maybe I’ll use gift cards to buy gift cards to buy gift cards. And lose all of your money to apples fees and taxes, which is precisely why nobody would ever do this.
        moate 7y ago
        "A high % of your money" is not "all your money". Let's say I've bought these bogus cards. This is the starting point, with dirty money. Anything bought here is obvious and traceable. I take that money, and I buy Visa gift cards, which basically function as cash. I take those Visas and buy Amex gift cards, losing 6% (ballparking here, it's actually 5.95% for $100) of my take to fees and then another 10% to fees/shipping for Amex. I funnel those through fake app purchases on the app store and lose a further 20% of my original take. I now have about 55-65% of my original take in relatively clean money that I convert to bitcoin and back. If you're talking thousands of dollars here, this can easily be worth it. Doubly so if you live in a country where the expectations of police are that they're not going to have the resources to pursue this kind of crime for whatever reason. Get enough people doing this and enough accounts to make the flow through multiple channels, and you've got yourself the makings of a multi-million dollar money laundering service you can sell out to identity thieves (or use for your own thieves).
        mrep 7y ago
        > I now have about 55-65% of my original take in relatively clean money that I convert to bitcoin and back. I'm no tax investigator expert, but I cannot think of a more sketchy/illegal way to "make a lot of money" than by receiving a bunch of bitcoin especially considering every bitcoin transaction is recorded on a public leger. They have every accounts history you received money from. How are you going to explain receiving all those transactions? At least with your app, you have something to show what people paid for even if it is shit.
- skunkpocalypse 7y ago
  ... and can be repeated a hundred thousand times. Voila, $5 million launderized.
ryanlol 7y ago
This only makes sense if you’re cashing out fraudulently acquired gift cards. Does not make any sense if you’re trying to launder money in a bank account or cash.
danielscrubs 7y ago
Is that really a big problem? I mean, Apple would take a 30% cut AND you'd have to put the money in the bank first which would make it traceable if I'm not missing something?
- jmkni 7y ago
  It's pretty common for scam artists to con people into buying Google Play/Apple gift cards, so I guess that would get around the first part.
  - danielscrubs 7y ago
    Aha, ok, that would explain it. Thanks!
- davinic 7y ago
  The whole point of money laundering is to get it in the bank as legitimate income. This accomplishes that.
neurostimulant 7y ago
Is 30% cut by Apple/Google actually competitive compared to other money laundering methods?
- mruts 7y ago
  I think so. You’re always going to lose money by laundering it. Also combined with the low upfront investment (it’s pretty easy to set up new apps), it doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me. Using a real physical business has a lot of problems that apps do not.
- driverdan 7y ago
  No. The standard is 10%.
- mrep 7y ago
  I'm sort of guessing here based on movies/things I have read since I ain't no money launderer, but I think locality to the source of money makes a huge difference. If you are a local drug dealer who makes all their money in their local currency in cash, then it is probably most efficient to open up some local business like a dry cleaner (i believe that's what one of the "businesses" they had in the movie american gangster) which "happens to make a bunch of money through pseudonymous cash". That way, you would only have to pay sales tax. If you are selling to people outside your main currency though, you need someway to convert it back and "digital" transactions seem ideal so I can see the extra cost being worth it (you just happen to have a lot of american customers who like your digital product...)

App stores are also used for money laundering. Create a bogus app, spend a bunch of money "buying" your app and now you have "legitimate" money.

by mrep 7y ago

App stores are also used for money laundering. Create a bogus app, spend a bunch of money "buying" your app and now you have "legitimate" money.

Trias11 7y ago

I guess it will work well to launder $50.00

troymc 7y ago
I wasn't familiar with schemes that use app stores for money laundering so I did some basic web searches and it seems it can been used to launder more than $50.00. Here is one example: https://complyadvantage.com/blog/blog-money-laundering-via-app-purchases/ https://complyadvantage.com/blog/blog-money-laundering-via-a... Just to be clear: I don't condone money laundering and I don't suggest you do it!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bjhkx 7y ago
  >Then set up a MongoDB database to automatically generate Apple store accounts to create game accounts, Anybody without a technical background could read this and think that MongoDB is some kind of Apple accounts generator software.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  Is this really money laundering though? No attempt is made to obscure the source of the money. This looks very much like standard credit card fraud to me.
  - wil421 7y ago
    Pretend I’m a scammer. Buy 10,000 CC#s in bulk. Most are bunk but I’ll buy iTunes gift cards with the good ones. Then I make clean money on the developer side. Maybe I’ll use gift cards to buy gift cards to buy gift cards. Now take this and have an organization doing it. They probably pay people across the world to get the gift cards they use.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      I’m sure a prosecutor could fit in a money laundering charge too, but I still find it weird to call this money laundering. The goal here isn’t to obscure the source of the money, the goal is to monetize credit card fraud. Nobody would actually use iTunes to launder money, the fees are simply too high. >Then I make clean money on the developer side. That money is not clean. >Maybe I’ll use gift cards to buy gift cards to buy gift cards. And lose all of your money to apples fees and taxes, which is precisely why nobody would ever do this.
      - moate 7y ago
        "A high % of your money" is not "all your money". Let's say I've bought these bogus cards. This is the starting point, with dirty money. Anything bought here is obvious and traceable. I take that money, and I buy Visa gift cards, which basically function as cash. I take those Visas and buy Amex gift cards, losing 6% (ballparking here, it's actually 5.95% for $100) of my take to fees and then another 10% to fees/shipping for Amex. I funnel those through fake app purchases on the app store and lose a further 20% of my original take. I now have about 55-65% of my original take in relatively clean money that I convert to bitcoin and back. If you're talking thousands of dollars here, this can easily be worth it. Doubly so if you live in a country where the expectations of police are that they're not going to have the resources to pursue this kind of crime for whatever reason. Get enough people doing this and enough accounts to make the flow through multiple channels, and you've got yourself the makings of a multi-million dollar money laundering service you can sell out to identity thieves (or use for your own thieves).
        mrep 7y ago
        > I now have about 55-65% of my original take in relatively clean money that I convert to bitcoin and back. I'm no tax investigator expert, but I cannot think of a more sketchy/illegal way to "make a lot of money" than by receiving a bunch of bitcoin especially considering every bitcoin transaction is recorded on a public leger. They have every accounts history you received money from. How are you going to explain receiving all those transactions? At least with your app, you have something to show what people paid for even if it is shit.
skunkpocalypse 7y ago
... and can be repeated a hundred thousand times. Voila, $5 million launderized.

ryanlol 7y ago

This only makes sense if you’re cashing out fraudulently acquired gift cards. Does not make any sense if you’re trying to launder money in a bank account or cash.

danielscrubs 7y ago

Is that really a big problem? I mean, Apple would take a 30% cut AND you'd have to put the money in the bank first which would make it traceable if I'm not missing something?

jmkni 7y ago
It's pretty common for scam artists to con people into buying Google Play/Apple gift cards, so I guess that would get around the first part.
- danielscrubs 7y ago
  Aha, ok, that would explain it. Thanks!
davinic 7y ago
The whole point of money laundering is to get it in the bank as legitimate income. This accomplishes that.

neurostimulant 7y ago

Is 30% cut by Apple/Google actually competitive compared to other money laundering methods?

mruts 7y ago
I think so. You’re always going to lose money by laundering it. Also combined with the low upfront investment (it’s pretty easy to set up new apps), it doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me. Using a real physical business has a lot of problems that apps do not.
driverdan 7y ago
No. The standard is 10%.
mrep 7y ago
I'm sort of guessing here based on movies/things I have read since I ain't no money launderer, but I think locality to the source of money makes a huge difference. If you are a local drug dealer who makes all their money in their local currency in cash, then it is probably most efficient to open up some local business like a dry cleaner (i believe that's what one of the "businesses" they had in the movie american gangster) which "happens to make a bunch of money through pseudonymous cash". That way, you would only have to pay sales tax. If you are selling to people outside your main currency though, you need someway to convert it back and "digital" transactions seem ideal so I can see the extra cost being worth it (you just happen to have a lot of american customers who like your digital product...)