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There is NO comparison to anything in a civilized western society I'm not well versed in French police history, but there are plenty of examples of government

There is NO comparison to anything in a civilized western society I'm not well versed in French police history, but there are plenty of examples of government brutality in the United States. This isn't whataboutism as, quite frankly, none of the violence justifies any of the other violence and what China is doing is an atrocious violation of basic human rights. Off the top of my head: Kent State — killing university students MOVE bombing - bombing a residential neighborhood in Philly Iran Contra Affair - CIA allegedly funded drug traffickers allegedly playing a large role in unleashing crack cocaine into American inner cities (wanna talk about violence against youth…) 1968 Democratic National Convention Dakota Access Pipeline protests - protestors were tear gassed and sprayed with water in freezing temperatures And of course Trump's concentration camps. If your argument hinges on the government looking the other way while a private party perpetrates violence I'd start looking at the Homestead Strike, the Ford Massacre, any small town in the south where the KKK + police department venn diagram was basically just a single circle, and of course Blackwater's (of Betsy Devoss fame) Nisour Square Massacre.

awakeasleep 7y ago
None of those are really the same- the closest thing I'm aware of in US history is the Pinkertons- except they were presumably professionals- in HK we're seeing illegal gangs being hired to terrorize the populace
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  None of those are really the same- the closest thing I'm aware of in US history is the Pinkertons- except they were presumably professionals- in HK we're seeing illegal gangs being hired to terrorize the populace What is happening in Hong Kong is, presumably, the government using outside groups as a proxy for violence. I've outlined a number of instances of the American government using disproportionate violence and using outside groups to perpetrate disproportionate violence. The one thing I forgot were the allegations that the FBI used Gregory Scarpa (a mob hitman) to extract information might seem closer for you. If you look to the south, there are plenty of instances of the American government funding South American rebel groups (while not the mob, they were not professionals, and did perpetrate plenty of heinous crimes). I mentioned the Contras in the context of the CIA funding drug trafficking into the US (if you don't believe that resulted in an explosion of violence go check out the homicide stats for LA County in the 1990s), but the Contras were extraordinarily violent in their home of Nicaragua. Of course nothing is ever exactly the same. I don't think that making a difference between professional and hobbyist thug is one worth making here. Beyond that I don't think that legal vs illegal is a worth making either. Do you think the PRC is going to sanction the triads (therefor declaring their behavior illegal)? I don't.
  - awakeasleep 7y ago
    The point I was referring to was that this is a domestic incident of proxy violence. The Scarpa and Crack episodes were closer to that, but it still doesn't seem like the Pinkertons were the closest we came to this in the USA

awakeasleep 7y ago

None of those are really the same- the closest thing I'm aware of in US history is the Pinkertons- except they were presumably professionals- in HK we're seeing illegal gangs being hired to terrorize the populace

inferiorhuman 7y ago
None of those are really the same- the closest thing I'm aware of in US history is the Pinkertons- except they were presumably professionals- in HK we're seeing illegal gangs being hired to terrorize the populace What is happening in Hong Kong is, presumably, the government using outside groups as a proxy for violence. I've outlined a number of instances of the American government using disproportionate violence and using outside groups to perpetrate disproportionate violence. The one thing I forgot were the allegations that the FBI used Gregory Scarpa (a mob hitman) to extract information might seem closer for you. If you look to the south, there are plenty of instances of the American government funding South American rebel groups (while not the mob, they were not professionals, and did perpetrate plenty of heinous crimes). I mentioned the Contras in the context of the CIA funding drug trafficking into the US (if you don't believe that resulted in an explosion of violence go check out the homicide stats for LA County in the 1990s), but the Contras were extraordinarily violent in their home of Nicaragua. Of course nothing is ever exactly the same. I don't think that making a difference between professional and hobbyist thug is one worth making here. Beyond that I don't think that legal vs illegal is a worth making either. Do you think the PRC is going to sanction the triads (therefor declaring their behavior illegal)? I don't.
- awakeasleep 7y ago
  The point I was referring to was that this is a domestic incident of proxy violence. The Scarpa and Crack episodes were closer to that, but it still doesn't seem like the Pinkertons were the closest we came to this in the USA