5 ms·

Unequivocally, yes. The disabled should be able to access online resources in a way that is functionally equivalent to an able-bodied person’s experience. And

Unequivocally, yes. The disabled should be able to access online resources in a way that is functionally equivalent to an able-bodied person’s experience. And yes, such accessibility should be protected by law.

gowld 7y ago
Why don't we have government relay services for websites? What is the functional equivalent to a picture of food? If this opportunistic enforcement-for-profit goes unchecked, and business and the public discover that the ADA bans providing any services that rely on vision, hearing, or limbs, the ADA won't last long. Having a disability sucks. Not all disabilities are curable. Banning the use of abilities is not a solution that will be tolerated.
- cco 7y ago
  A description of the food, is this a gotcha?
- ncallaway 7y ago
  > Banning the use of abilities is not a solution that will be tolerated. I can’t think of any serious proposal ever during the fight for accessibility where this was proposed or seriously considered as an option. Wheelchair cuts in sidewalks don’t prevent you from stepping on the curb. Elevators to spaces that are otherwise only accessible via stairs don’t remove the stairs. Ensuring a website works well with assistive software doesn’t mean the website can’t work for users that don’t need assistive software. Where does this concern come from? What proposal are you worried about where we would ban the use of abilities, or what percent in the application of the ADA do you think warrants this concern?
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  >Why don't we have government relay services for websites? This is like doing away with wheelchair ramps and replacing it with government employees who will show up and carry the wheelchair up stairs. Firstly it shifts the burden from the business to providing websites the impaired can use to all of us and it does so in a way that multiplies the costs in a virtually unbounded fashion. Instead of a business doing the work once we will be expected to open our wallets every time and forever when someone wants to do something on the web where a rapidly increasing share of all business is done. >What is the functional equivalent to a picture of food? A well crafted textual description of said food which many times is already somewhere below said food anyway?
threezero 7y ago
There should be some balance for practicality. If you sell cars, you shouldn’t have to be accessible to blind people who can’t even drive them. The only thing Dominos did wrong in my opinion is not provide the same discounts to everyone.
- orbital223 7y ago
  A blind man shouldn't be able to purchase a car for his son?
Misdicorl 7y ago
I agree with you in theory, but I think this gets hairy pretty quick. Should the requirement apply to a personal blog? What if that person is associated with something important and publishes interesting/useful information on their blog? What if they sell things? What if they only sell things by mail order and the site is just an ad? What if they have ads? Level headed enforcement is one important aspect, but I feel like good legislation is really hard here.
- tyingq 7y ago
  US airline websites have had to be accessible for quite a while now via a DOT directive. I agree some thought needs to be put into a rollout, but we do have some precedent.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Most law draws a distinction between something purely personal, and something done commercially.
  - Misdicorl 7y ago
    My point is that the line gets blurry on the internet really fast
    - beatgammit 7y ago
      Precisely. What if I decide to put ads on my personal blog because I've noticed that I have enough readers to make that make sense? Am I now a business? What if I decide to sell a plush design I made because people kept asking about it? Let's say that it becomes so popular that I choose to make a business out of it, at which point do I need to start making my website "accessible"? Is it when I file for a business license, or when I reach some amount in sales? Personally, I don't understand the "accessibility as a right" crowd. Yes I want the web to be accessible to people with disabilities, but I don't think it makes sense to force people to cater to any particular group. Perhaps it makes sense as a requirement for publicly listed companies, and absolutely for any government entity or entities that receive government funding, but not for the average person or small business owner, and the internet blurs the line between individual and company.
ratsmack 7y ago
I agree as long as it can be done without degrading the experience for everyone. Most importantly, it needs to be implemented by people with the knowledge of what is possible instead of a being designed by the bureau of wishful thinking.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Accessible design improves the experience for everyone. eg It's not just visually impaired people who hate fucking tiny fonts in light grey on a bright white background.
- jimktrains2 7y ago
  I'd argue that ada compliance in the real world is a boon for everyone. Especially for people with temporary disabilities, chronic pain, joint or muscle issues, the elderly, people with children, people will strollers, people with luggage, &c. Accessibility, in my experiences, is rarely at odds with aesthetics or degrades a person without disabilities experience. I cannot think of an example of the later, but I won't go as far as saying it never happens.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    Accessibility is great! As long as it doesn't end up with situations like MIT taking down a ton of old lecture videos because they didn't have the funds to add captions. There's a lot of real-world situations where mandating accessibility would result in closure. There's no way to make Angel's Landing [0] wheelchair accessible, for instance. (this is very common in the US's national parks, to the point that I'd bet that 3/4ths of them have at least one such trail/location) With situations like that, your choices are to keep it open for some people, or for no people. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_Landing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_Landing
matz1 7y ago
I agree but not if it add burden to the business operator.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  I disagree. It should definitely be on the business's responsibility to not discriminate. It is the cost of doing business.
  - matz1 7y ago
    Then a lot of business operator would not support it and hopefully will even fight for the law to be changed.
mruts 7y ago
I would say unequivocally no and it shouldn’t be enforced at all. So, like, if someone is brain dead, the website needs to pay for a new brain for them? What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense, online or offline.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  "So, like, if someone is brain dead, the website needs to pay for a new brain for them? What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense, online or offline." Genuine question- we have a well established disability law field with decades of law and examples of the limitations and coverage of ADA. Why are you coming up with a random example?
  - mruts 7y ago
    Maybe because governments aren’t all the same and not everyone comes from the same country? What you mean we, kemosabe?
    - pseudalopex 7y ago
      The article and the first comment were about a particular country. Or you could pick any other country with disability laws.
DuskStar 7y ago
How the fuck am I supposed to provide an equivalent experience for someone with a severe mental disability? Or for someone with Completely Locked In Syndrome? [0] Some accommodations just aren't possible. That's not to say that efforts shouldn't be made. Just that requiring perfection will eliminate everything if perfection is impossible. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome

gowld 7y ago

Why don't we have government relay services for websites? What is the functional equivalent to a picture of food? If this opportunistic enforcement-for-profit goes unchecked, and business and the public discover that the ADA bans providing any services that rely on vision, hearing, or limbs, the ADA won't last long. Having a disability sucks. Not all disabilities are curable. Banning the use of abilities is not a solution that will be tolerated.

cco 7y ago
A description of the food, is this a gotcha?
ncallaway 7y ago
> Banning the use of abilities is not a solution that will be tolerated. I can’t think of any serious proposal ever during the fight for accessibility where this was proposed or seriously considered as an option. Wheelchair cuts in sidewalks don’t prevent you from stepping on the curb. Elevators to spaces that are otherwise only accessible via stairs don’t remove the stairs. Ensuring a website works well with assistive software doesn’t mean the website can’t work for users that don’t need assistive software. Where does this concern come from? What proposal are you worried about where we would ban the use of abilities, or what percent in the application of the ADA do you think warrants this concern?
michaelmrose 7y ago
>Why don't we have government relay services for websites? This is like doing away with wheelchair ramps and replacing it with government employees who will show up and carry the wheelchair up stairs. Firstly it shifts the burden from the business to providing websites the impaired can use to all of us and it does so in a way that multiplies the costs in a virtually unbounded fashion. Instead of a business doing the work once we will be expected to open our wallets every time and forever when someone wants to do something on the web where a rapidly increasing share of all business is done. >What is the functional equivalent to a picture of food? A well crafted textual description of said food which many times is already somewhere below said food anyway?

threezero 7y ago

There should be some balance for practicality. If you sell cars, you shouldn’t have to be accessible to blind people who can’t even drive them. The only thing Dominos did wrong in my opinion is not provide the same discounts to everyone.

orbital223 7y ago
A blind man shouldn't be able to purchase a car for his son?

Misdicorl 7y ago

I agree with you in theory, but I think this gets hairy pretty quick. Should the requirement apply to a personal blog? What if that person is associated with something important and publishes interesting/useful information on their blog? What if they sell things? What if they only sell things by mail order and the site is just an ad? What if they have ads? Level headed enforcement is one important aspect, but I feel like good legislation is really hard here.

tyingq 7y ago
US airline websites have had to be accessible for quite a while now via a DOT directive. I agree some thought needs to be put into a rollout, but we do have some precedent.
DanBC 7y ago
Most law draws a distinction between something purely personal, and something done commercially.
- Misdicorl 7y ago
  My point is that the line gets blurry on the internet really fast
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    Precisely. What if I decide to put ads on my personal blog because I've noticed that I have enough readers to make that make sense? Am I now a business? What if I decide to sell a plush design I made because people kept asking about it? Let's say that it becomes so popular that I choose to make a business out of it, at which point do I need to start making my website "accessible"? Is it when I file for a business license, or when I reach some amount in sales? Personally, I don't understand the "accessibility as a right" crowd. Yes I want the web to be accessible to people with disabilities, but I don't think it makes sense to force people to cater to any particular group. Perhaps it makes sense as a requirement for publicly listed companies, and absolutely for any government entity or entities that receive government funding, but not for the average person or small business owner, and the internet blurs the line between individual and company.

ratsmack 7y ago

I agree as long as it can be done without degrading the experience for everyone. Most importantly, it needs to be implemented by people with the knowledge of what is possible instead of a being designed by the bureau of wishful thinking.

DanBC 7y ago
Accessible design improves the experience for everyone. eg It's not just visually impaired people who hate fucking tiny fonts in light grey on a bright white background.
jimktrains2 7y ago
I'd argue that ada compliance in the real world is a boon for everyone. Especially for people with temporary disabilities, chronic pain, joint or muscle issues, the elderly, people with children, people will strollers, people with luggage, &c. Accessibility, in my experiences, is rarely at odds with aesthetics or degrades a person without disabilities experience. I cannot think of an example of the later, but I won't go as far as saying it never happens.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  Accessibility is great! As long as it doesn't end up with situations like MIT taking down a ton of old lecture videos because they didn't have the funds to add captions. There's a lot of real-world situations where mandating accessibility would result in closure. There's no way to make Angel's Landing [0] wheelchair accessible, for instance. (this is very common in the US's national parks, to the point that I'd bet that 3/4ths of them have at least one such trail/location) With situations like that, your choices are to keep it open for some people, or for no people. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_Landing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_Landing

matz1 7y ago

I agree but not if it add burden to the business operator.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
I disagree. It should definitely be on the business's responsibility to not discriminate. It is the cost of doing business.
- matz1 7y ago
  Then a lot of business operator would not support it and hopefully will even fight for the law to be changed.

mruts 7y ago

I would say unequivocally no and it shouldn’t be enforced at all. So, like, if someone is brain dead, the website needs to pay for a new brain for them? What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense, online or offline.

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
"So, like, if someone is brain dead, the website needs to pay for a new brain for them? What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense, online or offline." Genuine question- we have a well established disability law field with decades of law and examples of the limitations and coverage of ADA. Why are you coming up with a random example?
- mruts 7y ago
  Maybe because governments aren’t all the same and not everyone comes from the same country? What you mean we, kemosabe?
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    The article and the first comment were about a particular country. Or you could pick any other country with disability laws.

DuskStar 7y ago

How the fuck am I supposed to provide an equivalent experience for someone with a severe mental disability? Or for someone with Completely Locked In Syndrome? [0] Some accommodations just aren't possible. That's not to say that efforts shouldn't be made. Just that requiring perfection will eliminate everything if perfection is impossible. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome