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Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic, landlords in the UK already do have a de-facto mechanism for assessin

Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic, landlords in the UK already do have a de-facto mechanism for assessing tenants in the form of landlord references. They can also perform various financial checks, such as employer references, or asking for a guarantor. On the other hand, I rent in London and do not even know the name of our landlord. He/she operates through various limited companies and an agent. I can infer it through Companies House but that option wouldn't have been available before we put down our holding deposit.

chrisseaton 7y ago
> Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic, landlords in the UK already do have a de-facto mechanism for assessing tenants in the form of landlord references. They can also perform various financial checks, such as employer references, or asking for a guarantor. These are just things they ask for though - there's no special legal power they have to ask for them - you could also ask for the same things from your prospective landlord if you wanted to, and you'd have the same information. They'd probably decline to provide them and refuse to rent to you, in the same way as you can decline to provide them and refuse to rent from them.
- jogjayr 7y ago
  > They'd probably decline to provide them, in the same way as you can decline to provide them. The consequences of declining are very different for both parties. The landlord moves on to literally any other prospect because everyone else will provide that information. The tenant can move on to only slumlords, who will not insist on a credit/criminal background/reference check. Or they can be homeless.
  - mlurp 7y ago
    I think that's really more a function of what slant the market is currently in, ie, renter's or landlord's market. If there were a glut of apartments compared to renters, the desperateness would be reversed.
    - pagnol 7y ago
      What would the desperateness of the landlords look like, I wonder?
      - goodcanadian 7y ago
        A willingness to waive references, fees, et cetera for any halfway decent looking tenant. I've benefited from that in the past.
    - black_puppydog 7y ago
      And that is the case in exactly which places? I'm not saying that doesn't exist, but I'd be surprised to find that it's a common situation. But hey, find some stats and change my mind :)
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > The consequences of declining are very different for both parties. Right this is the power asymmetry we already mentioned.
- behringer 7y ago
  That's what makes it asymmetric. You need a place to live and need them. They have ample supply of renters that won't ask questions, they don't need you.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Yes but the person I was replying to said > Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic
- ohithereyou 7y ago
  GP posted: > Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic You responded: > They'd probably decline to provide them and refuse to rent to you, in the same way as you can decline to provide them and refuse to rent from them. This sounds like the definition of an asymmetric power difference to me. Sure, I can refuse to provide financial checks or a guarantor, but that only hurts me. Asking for that information from my landlord also only hurts me as a landlord is likely to avoid me (and tell the other landlords he knows) and go with someone more compliant.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Yes... my comment was made ignoring the asymmetric power, as GP said. I quoted that bit myself.
- eertami 7y ago
  >They'd probably decline to provide them and refuse to rent to you, in the same way as you can decline to provide them and refuse to rent from them. Well... yeah exactly. You realistically don't have the option to ask for a reference about them and you can't simply refuse to rent from them because you need shelter and 99% of people won't went to you if you don't play ball. Changes in favour of tenants are being proposed because in reality there is a problematic power dynamic. You can discuss whatever fanciful hypothetical you like to insist it is somehow not the case "legally" but reality tells a story that you can't ignore.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Most, if not all, the changes currently made supposedly in favour of tenants are made for political purposes, not to actually solve any issues. The market is very hot in places like London. This makes tenants 'unhappy'. In turn this makes the government propose ill-thought measures for political gains. These measures tend to decrease supply (since they all hit on landlords) when they should increase supply with a disproportionate focus on "rogue landlords". That's with a Tory government. Labour's current view is the hard-left and thus private landlords are to be hit as a matter of ideology...
    - radicalbyte 7y ago
      If they wanted to fix the problem then they'd tax capital gains at the same rate as income and would eliminate all of the other tax benefits related to owning a second (or third) home. It was common 20 years ago for people in their mid-forties to use the massive equity in their home to buy multiple properties for the rental market. House prices at the time were growing so they not only had someone else basically buy their house over 25 years they also profited greatly from the inflation in house prices. With the increase in prices they could increase the rent so the whole thing is a triple-whammy. This didn't happen as much in other countries because other countries reduced the tax benefits for this scenario.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  > These are just things they ask for though - there's no special legal power they have to ask for them - you could also ask for the same things from your prospective landlord if you wanted to, and you'd have the same information. You could ask, but there's zero chance they'd give them to you in this market.
- GuardianCaveman 7y ago
  There’s not a single landlord who will rent without a background check. Your options are be homeless or submit. The landlords options in response to your demand are rent to one of the dozens of other people who want to rent from them or submit. Not exactly the same choice.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic, landlords in the UK already do have a de-facto mechanism for assessing tenants in the form of landlord references. They can also perform various financial checks, such as employer references, or asking for a guarantor. These are just things they ask for though - there's no special legal power they have to ask for them - you could also ask for the same things from your prospective landlord if you wanted to, and you'd have the same information. They'd probably decline to provide them and refuse to rent to you, in the same way as you can decline to provide them and refuse to rent from them.

jogjayr 7y ago
> They'd probably decline to provide them, in the same way as you can decline to provide them. The consequences of declining are very different for both parties. The landlord moves on to literally any other prospect because everyone else will provide that information. The tenant can move on to only slumlords, who will not insist on a credit/criminal background/reference check. Or they can be homeless.
- mlurp 7y ago
  I think that's really more a function of what slant the market is currently in, ie, renter's or landlord's market. If there were a glut of apartments compared to renters, the desperateness would be reversed.
  - pagnol 7y ago
    What would the desperateness of the landlords look like, I wonder?
    - goodcanadian 7y ago
      A willingness to waive references, fees, et cetera for any halfway decent looking tenant. I've benefited from that in the past.
  - black_puppydog 7y ago
    And that is the case in exactly which places? I'm not saying that doesn't exist, but I'd be surprised to find that it's a common situation. But hey, find some stats and change my mind :)
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > The consequences of declining are very different for both parties. Right this is the power asymmetry we already mentioned.
behringer 7y ago
That's what makes it asymmetric. You need a place to live and need them. They have ample supply of renters that won't ask questions, they don't need you.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Yes but the person I was replying to said > Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic
ohithereyou 7y ago
GP posted: > Leaving aside the fact that rental markets already have a highly asymmetric power dynamic You responded: > They'd probably decline to provide them and refuse to rent to you, in the same way as you can decline to provide them and refuse to rent from them. This sounds like the definition of an asymmetric power difference to me. Sure, I can refuse to provide financial checks or a guarantor, but that only hurts me. Asking for that information from my landlord also only hurts me as a landlord is likely to avoid me (and tell the other landlords he knows) and go with someone more compliant.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Yes... my comment was made ignoring the asymmetric power, as GP said. I quoted that bit myself.
eertami 7y ago
>They'd probably decline to provide them and refuse to rent to you, in the same way as you can decline to provide them and refuse to rent from them. Well... yeah exactly. You realistically don't have the option to ask for a reference about them and you can't simply refuse to rent from them because you need shelter and 99% of people won't went to you if you don't play ball. Changes in favour of tenants are being proposed because in reality there is a problematic power dynamic. You can discuss whatever fanciful hypothetical you like to insist it is somehow not the case "legally" but reality tells a story that you can't ignore.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  Most, if not all, the changes currently made supposedly in favour of tenants are made for political purposes, not to actually solve any issues. The market is very hot in places like London. This makes tenants 'unhappy'. In turn this makes the government propose ill-thought measures for political gains. These measures tend to decrease supply (since they all hit on landlords) when they should increase supply with a disproportionate focus on "rogue landlords". That's with a Tory government. Labour's current view is the hard-left and thus private landlords are to be hit as a matter of ideology...
  - radicalbyte 7y ago
    If they wanted to fix the problem then they'd tax capital gains at the same rate as income and would eliminate all of the other tax benefits related to owning a second (or third) home. It was common 20 years ago for people in their mid-forties to use the massive equity in their home to buy multiple properties for the rental market. House prices at the time were growing so they not only had someone else basically buy their house over 25 years they also profited greatly from the inflation in house prices. With the increase in prices they could increase the rent so the whole thing is a triple-whammy. This didn't happen as much in other countries because other countries reduced the tax benefits for this scenario.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
pmoriarty 7y ago
> These are just things they ask for though - there's no special legal power they have to ask for them - you could also ask for the same things from your prospective landlord if you wanted to, and you'd have the same information. You could ask, but there's zero chance they'd give them to you in this market.
GuardianCaveman 7y ago
There’s not a single landlord who will rent without a background check. Your options are be homeless or submit. The landlords options in response to your demand are rent to one of the dozens of other people who want to rent from them or submit. Not exactly the same choice.