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You need JavaScript to use the web in 2019. It has nothing to do with difficulty. You also need an ID to get into the boarding area of an airport and you can't

You need JavaScript to use the web in 2019. It has nothing to do with difficulty. You also need an ID to get into the boarding area of an airport and you can't smoke in restaurants. It's never going to be 1995 again. It's time to stop complaining about this.

klez 7y ago
Those are not remotely the same. A web page can function without JS. It's not something you need to display some text and some images. And it's not harmful to others. Smoking in a closed space is. Also, I can't believe every time this refrain pops up we need to be reminded that js not loading is not only a problem for those deactivating it explicitly but also in those cases when it didn't load for any number of reasons (like a bad connection). You're doing your visitors a disservice if you need js to load static text and pictures.
- Avamander 7y ago
  A web page can function without JS, but a lot of things seriously aren't doable with just HTML5, no matter how hard you try.
  - progval 7y ago
    It depends on where you draw the line between what you call a webpage vs a webapp. If a webpage is something with just text, images, and non-interactive forms (and audio and video to a lesser extent), then it's perfectly possible.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    Nobody complains that Google Maps are using JS. People are complaining that developers abusing JS just to show simple page or video which is perfectly doable with HTML 5.
    - Avamander 7y ago
      Showing a simple video isn't simple without JS, it's just clunky in all aspects.
      - kbenson 7y ago
        I think you're mistaking simple for something else. Simple can easily be clunky. I would even say simple is often clunky. Making something elegant, and full of features, and pretty is often complex.
        Avamander 7y ago
        It's not simple even for the developer to use the video tag if you want a thing that works.
      - vbezhenar 7y ago
        It's very simple: just use <video> tag.
- briandear 7y ago
  Just a curiosity, but has anyone ever become addicted to secondhand smoke?
  - Retra 7y ago
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/moderate-levels-secondhand-smoke-deliver-nicotine-brain https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/moderate-level...
tempguy9999 7y ago
>You need JavaScript to use the web in 2019 No you don't. Nor should you ever if the page doesn't need it. Having your code running on my machine always was and always will be a security risk. If you don't understand that you shouldn't be in that job. > You also need an ID to get into the boarding area of an airport and you can't smoke in restaurants Respectively, that's because a boarding area is not a public area, and relevance of smoking to this? > It's time to stop complaining about this No, it's time web devs understood the implications of their job, and the risk they put their users at if done improperly. An axiom of technology design: Simplicity. If you don't need X, don't use it. Edit: so you're the "Founder of Improvely: https://www.improvely.com" https://www.improvely.com" which "Track, Test and Optimize Your Online Marketing". That explains something. No, no, no, you're not going to track me. I am not your data point.
- Jonnax 7y ago
  It's your right to choose to browse the internet without JavaScript enabled. If a website doesn't run then it's upto you to either accept that you won't see their content or enable JS. People who complain about sites not working without JS in comment sections are silly. Nobody is going to be convinced to change.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    You're correct (upvoted for that), it's my right and I decided long ago. I'm ok paying the price, also reaping the rewards of very fast page loading, zero tracking, and shutting off a huge vector for malware. But others with less tech knowledge (which is 97% of the population I guess) are not in a position to make the choice and have to trust. Some people abuse that trust for profit. Other web devs are well-intentioned but clueless about the risks they put on the users. Also I disable JS long ago because I knew that there would be unknown unknows, and bingo: (https://react-etc.net/entry/exploiting-speculative-execution-meltdown-spectre-via-javascript https://react-etc.net/entry/exploiting-speculative-execution...) "Exploiting Speculative Execution (Meltdown/Spectre) via JavaScript" It's a matter of trust; trust is earned; the industry as a whole hasn't earned it. Further reading: Remember that there is no code faster than no code. -- Taligent's Guide to Designing Programs Simple things should be simple and complex things should be possible. -- Alan Kay Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away. -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry [...]But there is one quality that cannot be purchased in this way---and that is reliability. The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity. It is a price which the very rich find most hard to pay. -- C.A.R. Hoare, "The Emperor's Old Clothes", Turing Award Lecture (1980) Increasingly, people seem to misinterpret complexity as sophistication, which is baffling --- the incomprehensible should cause suspicion rather than admiration. Possibly this trend results from a mistaken belief that using a somewhat mysterious device confers an aura of power on the user. -- Niklaus Wirth The difference between a good and a poor architect is that the poor architect succumbs to every temptation and the good one resists it. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein Beauty is more important in computing than anywhere else in technology because software is so complicated. Beauty is the ultimate defense against complexity. -- David Gelernter, "Machine Beauty", Basic Books (1998) Fools ignore complexity; pragmatists suffer it; experts avoid it; geniuses remove it. -- Alan Perlis The cheapest, fastest, and most reliable components of a computer system are those that aren't there. -- Graham Bell [...]Simplicity and elegance are unpopular because they require hard work and discipline to achieve and education to be appreciated. -- Edsger W. Dijkstra Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming. -- Brian Kernighan Complexity is a sign of technical immaturity. Simplicity of use is the real sign of a well design product whether it is an ATM or a Patriot missile. -- Daniel T. Ling There's an old story about the person who wished his computer were as easy to use as his telephone. That wish has come true, since I no longer know how to use my telephone. -- Bjarne Stroustrup The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents. -- Nathaniel S. Borenstein
lofikrom 7y ago
Lots of ad and script blockers block JS nowadays, you can definitely go without it. For my browsing habits at least, I find I can disable JS globally and selectively unblock it when I come across a site that does require JS. It's doable, and a tad bit safer too.

klez 7y ago

Those are not remotely the same. A web page can function without JS. It's not something you need to display some text and some images. And it's not harmful to others. Smoking in a closed space is. Also, I can't believe every time this refrain pops up we need to be reminded that js not loading is not only a problem for those deactivating it explicitly but also in those cases when it didn't load for any number of reasons (like a bad connection). You're doing your visitors a disservice if you need js to load static text and pictures.

Avamander 7y ago
A web page can function without JS, but a lot of things seriously aren't doable with just HTML5, no matter how hard you try.
- progval 7y ago
  It depends on where you draw the line between what you call a webpage vs a webapp. If a webpage is something with just text, images, and non-interactive forms (and audio and video to a lesser extent), then it's perfectly possible.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  Nobody complains that Google Maps are using JS. People are complaining that developers abusing JS just to show simple page or video which is perfectly doable with HTML 5.
  - Avamander 7y ago
    Showing a simple video isn't simple without JS, it's just clunky in all aspects.
    - kbenson 7y ago
      I think you're mistaking simple for something else. Simple can easily be clunky. I would even say simple is often clunky. Making something elegant, and full of features, and pretty is often complex.
      - Avamander 7y ago
        It's not simple even for the developer to use the video tag if you want a thing that works.
    - vbezhenar 7y ago
      It's very simple: just use <video> tag.
briandear 7y ago
Just a curiosity, but has anyone ever become addicted to secondhand smoke?
- Retra 7y ago
  https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/moderate-levels-secondhand-smoke-deliver-nicotine-brain https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/moderate-level...

tempguy9999 7y ago

>You need JavaScript to use the web in 2019 No you don't. Nor should you ever if the page doesn't need it. Having your code running on my machine always was and always will be a security risk. If you don't understand that you shouldn't be in that job. > You also need an ID to get into the boarding area of an airport and you can't smoke in restaurants Respectively, that's because a boarding area is not a public area, and relevance of smoking to this? > It's time to stop complaining about this No, it's time web devs understood the implications of their job, and the risk they put their users at if done improperly. An axiom of technology design: Simplicity. If you don't need X, don't use it. Edit: so you're the "Founder of Improvely: https://www.improvely.com" https://www.improvely.com" which "Track, Test and Optimize Your Online Marketing". That explains something. No, no, no, you're not going to track me. I am not your data point.

Jonnax 7y ago
It's your right to choose to browse the internet without JavaScript enabled. If a website doesn't run then it's upto you to either accept that you won't see their content or enable JS. People who complain about sites not working without JS in comment sections are silly. Nobody is going to be convinced to change.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  You're correct (upvoted for that), it's my right and I decided long ago. I'm ok paying the price, also reaping the rewards of very fast page loading, zero tracking, and shutting off a huge vector for malware. But others with less tech knowledge (which is 97% of the population I guess) are not in a position to make the choice and have to trust. Some people abuse that trust for profit. Other web devs are well-intentioned but clueless about the risks they put on the users. Also I disable JS long ago because I knew that there would be unknown unknows, and bingo: (https://react-etc.net/entry/exploiting-speculative-execution-meltdown-spectre-via-javascript https://react-etc.net/entry/exploiting-speculative-execution...) "Exploiting Speculative Execution (Meltdown/Spectre) via JavaScript" It's a matter of trust; trust is earned; the industry as a whole hasn't earned it. Further reading: Remember that there is no code faster than no code. -- Taligent's Guide to Designing Programs Simple things should be simple and complex things should be possible. -- Alan Kay Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away. -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry [...]But there is one quality that cannot be purchased in this way---and that is reliability. The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity. It is a price which the very rich find most hard to pay. -- C.A.R. Hoare, "The Emperor's Old Clothes", Turing Award Lecture (1980) Increasingly, people seem to misinterpret complexity as sophistication, which is baffling --- the incomprehensible should cause suspicion rather than admiration. Possibly this trend results from a mistaken belief that using a somewhat mysterious device confers an aura of power on the user. -- Niklaus Wirth The difference between a good and a poor architect is that the poor architect succumbs to every temptation and the good one resists it. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein Beauty is more important in computing than anywhere else in technology because software is so complicated. Beauty is the ultimate defense against complexity. -- David Gelernter, "Machine Beauty", Basic Books (1998) Fools ignore complexity; pragmatists suffer it; experts avoid it; geniuses remove it. -- Alan Perlis The cheapest, fastest, and most reliable components of a computer system are those that aren't there. -- Graham Bell [...]Simplicity and elegance are unpopular because they require hard work and discipline to achieve and education to be appreciated. -- Edsger W. Dijkstra Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming. -- Brian Kernighan Complexity is a sign of technical immaturity. Simplicity of use is the real sign of a well design product whether it is an ATM or a Patriot missile. -- Daniel T. Ling There's an old story about the person who wished his computer were as easy to use as his telephone. That wish has come true, since I no longer know how to use my telephone. -- Bjarne Stroustrup The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents. -- Nathaniel S. Borenstein

lofikrom 7y ago

Lots of ad and script blockers block JS nowadays, you can definitely go without it. For my browsing habits at least, I find I can disable JS globally and selectively unblock it when I come across a site that does require JS. It's doable, and a tad bit safer too.