4 ms·

The plural of anecdote is not data. For example, in the Washington Post story (your last link about passport renewal issues) the only hard statistics provided i

by zaroth 7y ago

The plural of anecdote is not data. For example, in the Washington Post story (your last link about passport renewal issues) the only hard statistics provided in the whole story show that the type of denials they are discussing are at their lowest level since the practice started during the Bush years and continued through the Obama years. Deportations overall are significantly lower they they were in 2010, and steady the last several years. From the stories I’m reading (WSJ) ICE is not even able to successfully deport illegal immigrants where final deportations orders have been issued. [1] - https://www.wsj.com/articles/immigration-enforcement-raids-begin-in-new-york-11563062969 https://www.wsj.com/articles/immigration-enforcement-raids-b...

geofft 7y ago
I was unclear about what I meant by "increasingly common," but I did not mean "during the Trump administration." It has certainly been happening well before then, too. And multiple presidential administrations ignoring the rights of citizens absolutely doesn't make it magically okay. I have my problems with Trump, but that doesn't imply that I think everything Obama and Bush did was good and just. (In any case, even one US citizen unlawfully detained, let alone deported, seriously concerns me as a citizen. Either the rights of citizenship are guaranteed, or they're not. They can't be mostly guaranteed.)
- zaroth 7y ago
  The issue of verifying citizenship is as old as the existence of citizenship in the first place. While there’s no doubt these stories are magnified more than ever, I’m wondering if there’s any reason to believe this is actually an issue that is statistically becoming more common over the last 4-, 8-, 12- years, or if in fact, many of these practices are actually becoming less common but they are also becoming more widely discussed? Two unaccompanied kids walk across the border near Tijuana carrying US passports, one with a picture from many years before which makes her hard to identify and are detained. The brother signs papers (under duress) “admitting” the sister is actually his cousin and not a citizen. The girl is held for 36 hours before being released. A bad situation all around. Is it more common, or do we just hear about it now?
fzeroracer 7y ago
To be fair, this is deportations, not deportations + detentions. Detentions seem to be at an all-time high and calculating the amount of deportations becomes trickier when it could possibly take years for a case to go through. There's also the issue of this data coming from ICE itself (if it's the same dataset I think you're referring to), which is sort of like asking wolves to tell the farmer how many sheep they've ate over the last month. With how little accountability and data ICE. But that's the best data we have, unfortunately. This is a biased source, but seems to have some decent overview of some of the statistics ICE has released [1] [1] https://immigrantjustice.org/staff/blog/ice-released-its-most-comprehensive-immigration-detention-data-yet https://immigrantjustice.org/staff/blog/ice-released-its-mos...

by zaroth 7y ago

geofft 7y ago

I was unclear about what I meant by "increasingly common," but I did not mean "during the Trump administration." It has certainly been happening well before then, too. And multiple presidential administrations ignoring the rights of citizens absolutely doesn't make it magically okay. I have my problems with Trump, but that doesn't imply that I think everything Obama and Bush did was good and just. (In any case, even one US citizen unlawfully detained, let alone deported, seriously concerns me as a citizen. Either the rights of citizenship are guaranteed, or they're not. They can't be mostly guaranteed.)

zaroth 7y ago
The issue of verifying citizenship is as old as the existence of citizenship in the first place. While there’s no doubt these stories are magnified more than ever, I’m wondering if there’s any reason to believe this is actually an issue that is statistically becoming more common over the last 4-, 8-, 12- years, or if in fact, many of these practices are actually becoming less common but they are also becoming more widely discussed? Two unaccompanied kids walk across the border near Tijuana carrying US passports, one with a picture from many years before which makes her hard to identify and are detained. The brother signs papers (under duress) “admitting” the sister is actually his cousin and not a citizen. The girl is held for 36 hours before being released. A bad situation all around. Is it more common, or do we just hear about it now?

fzeroracer 7y ago

To be fair, this is deportations, not deportations + detentions. Detentions seem to be at an all-time high and calculating the amount of deportations becomes trickier when it could possibly take years for a case to go through. There's also the issue of this data coming from ICE itself (if it's the same dataset I think you're referring to), which is sort of like asking wolves to tell the farmer how many sheep they've ate over the last month. With how little accountability and data ICE. But that's the best data we have, unfortunately. This is a biased source, but seems to have some decent overview of some of the statistics ICE has released [1] [1] https://immigrantjustice.org/staff/blog/ice-released-its-most-comprehensive-immigration-detention-data-yet https://immigrantjustice.org/staff/blog/ice-released-its-mos...