5 ms·

...and if you don't have a green card?

by untog 7y ago

weiming 7y ago
I guess someone could show a driver license as it requires a bunch of prove-your-identity documents to get, at least in my state.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  Depends on the state - many (most? all?) states let people on temporary visas get a drivers license, and don't tie the period of validity together. But more importantly, since there is no system to revoke a drivers license if your immigration status is revoked, a drivers license can only be used as proof that you were able to show legal status in the past, not that you have it now.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    > and don't tie the period of validity together That seems... foolish? Like allowing a root/intermediate CA to sign leaf certs to be valid after their own expiration.
    - lazyasciiart 7y ago
      Not exactly. It's more like, your email account at work doesn't automatically deactivate when you die. They're totally separate systems with different requirements.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Some states (like California) allow illegal immigrants to still attain driver licenses.
  - morpheuskafka 7y ago
    If it's a Real ID, then the federal government has a database with the documents you used to get it so they can quickly see your US or foreign citizenship and easily find your record from there.
winter_blue 7y ago
If you're on a visa, you should download the PDF of your I-94 (they've been all electronic since 2013) from the CBP's website. Either print and carry the I-94 around with you, or save the PDF of it to your phone (and hope you have battery life if you ever get stopped by these people). If you're a citizen, my understanding is that you only have to show some form of ID (e.g. a driver's license).
- untog 7y ago
  So what about if you provide ID and they still detain you for three weeks anyway? https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2019/07/22/dallas-born-citizen-picked-border-patrol-detained-three-weeks https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2019/07/22/dalla...
  - anon12345690 7y ago
    so did you read it? his mom is illegal his brother is illegal and another riding in the same car is illegal. they crossed the border and got questioned. they tried verifying his info but his mom put a false name on his birth certificate, claimed he was born in mexico before and got him a visitors visa from mexico to the US when he was a minor. so it sucks he stayed there so long but are you gonna say this is normal? can you find any case where a legal person with no false papers or illegal family members while crossing the border got detained?
manigandham 7y ago
Do you mean physically? They can lookup your information. Same thing when you lose your wallet/license and get stopped by police.
- untog 7y ago
  I meant more if you are not a green card holder. Could be on a visa, or just a tourist. "Just show your green card" isn't a valid answer for everyone
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Then show your visa. Proper paperwork and identification is required for everyone, citizens included.
    - pas 7y ago
      Is there federal law that mandates citizens to carry ID?
      - manigandham 7y ago
        It's not illegal to not have ID as a citizen, but several states and federal cases have upheld requirements that you must identify yourself when necessary, which is effectively the same thing. The point is that you must have clear legal status and documentation, whether that's physically on you as a person (for green card holders) or available to be looked up (for everyone).
    - untog 7y ago
      What if ICE thinks it's fake? What if they don't believe you are a tourist? All of this relies on a judgement call by ICE, and many people do not trust their judgements. Not unjustifiably.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        They look up your information. This is done millions of times every day by law enforcement. The physical ID just speeds up the process. It's not a "judgement call" to believe you or not when it comes to identification.

...and if you don't have a green card?

by untog 7y ago

...and if you don't have a green card?

I guess someone could show a driver license as it requires a bunch of prove-your-identity documents to get, at least in my state.

lazyasciiart 7y ago
Depends on the state - many (most? all?) states let people on temporary visas get a drivers license, and don't tie the period of validity together. But more importantly, since there is no system to revoke a drivers license if your immigration status is revoked, a drivers license can only be used as proof that you were able to show legal status in the past, not that you have it now.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  > and don't tie the period of validity together That seems... foolish? Like allowing a root/intermediate CA to sign leaf certs to be valid after their own expiration.
  - lazyasciiart 7y ago
    Not exactly. It's more like, your email account at work doesn't automatically deactivate when you die. They're totally separate systems with different requirements.
- manigandham 7y ago
  Some states (like California) allow illegal immigrants to still attain driver licenses.
- morpheuskafka 7y ago
  If it's a Real ID, then the federal government has a database with the documents you used to get it so they can quickly see your US or foreign citizenship and easily find your record from there.

winter_blue 7y ago

If you're on a visa, you should download the PDF of your I-94 (they've been all electronic since 2013) from the CBP's website. Either print and carry the I-94 around with you, or save the PDF of it to your phone (and hope you have battery life if you ever get stopped by these people). If you're a citizen, my understanding is that you only have to show some form of ID (e.g. a driver's license).

untog 7y ago
So what about if you provide ID and they still detain you for three weeks anyway? https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2019/07/22/dallas-born-citizen-picked-border-patrol-detained-three-weeks https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2019/07/22/dalla...
- anon12345690 7y ago
  so did you read it? his mom is illegal his brother is illegal and another riding in the same car is illegal. they crossed the border and got questioned. they tried verifying his info but his mom put a false name on his birth certificate, claimed he was born in mexico before and got him a visitors visa from mexico to the US when he was a minor. so it sucks he stayed there so long but are you gonna say this is normal? can you find any case where a legal person with no false papers or illegal family members while crossing the border got detained?

manigandham 7y ago

Do you mean physically? They can lookup your information. Same thing when you lose your wallet/license and get stopped by police.

untog 7y ago
I meant more if you are not a green card holder. Could be on a visa, or just a tourist. "Just show your green card" isn't a valid answer for everyone
- manigandham 7y ago
  Then show your visa. Proper paperwork and identification is required for everyone, citizens included.
  - pas 7y ago
    Is there federal law that mandates citizens to carry ID?
    - manigandham 7y ago
      It's not illegal to not have ID as a citizen, but several states and federal cases have upheld requirements that you must identify yourself when necessary, which is effectively the same thing. The point is that you must have clear legal status and documentation, whether that's physically on you as a person (for green card holders) or available to be looked up (for everyone).
  - untog 7y ago
    What if ICE thinks it's fake? What if they don't believe you are a tourist? All of this relies on a judgement call by ICE, and many people do not trust their judgements. Not unjustifiably.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      They look up your information. This is done millions of times every day by law enforcement. The physical ID just speeds up the process. It's not a "judgement call" to believe you or not when it comes to identification.