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I had read a few of these negative articles about Amazon fulfillment centers and then a guy we know working the counter at our local pizza place got a job at on

by conorh 7y ago

I had read a few of these negative articles about Amazon fulfillment centers and then a guy we know working the counter at our local pizza place got a job at one of them. That made me change my mind and doubt the reporting after talking with him. The pay was much better better, the benefits if he transitioned to full time were much better, and he was really excited about a program Amazon has to cover tuition after (I think) a year for some educational programs.

seraphsf 7y ago
Reminds me of the classic Nicholas Kristof article, “Two Cheers for Sweatshops”. (http://archive.is/W6ABE http://archive.is/W6ABE) The gist of which is, a job can be ‘not good’ from the perspective of the privileged but still ‘much better than the alternatives’ from the perspective of the people who take that job. If the employer of a “sweatshop job” is not coercing or lying to its employees, then I have a hard time faulting the employer directly. We may still want systemic change to create more options and more equity for employees, but the “sweatshop” (that pays more than alternatives and which employees freely choose) is not the villain in this story.
- hackermailman 7y ago
  I saw a documentary once on a slum in Kampala, where they interviewed a guy living in the slum who's job it was to clean out the public toilets there. He claimed it was one of the 'best jobs', because he was paid on time, given a uniform/gloves to wear instead of having to buy one himself, set his own hours, and the labor was not back breaking agricultural labor in the open sun all day. He also remarked he was able to contribute to his community in a positive way by keeping it clean, something all the other residents rewarded him for with various tips as thanks for his service since they had to use those toilets everyday. Wasn't the response I expected.
  - ishjoh 7y ago
    That's very interesting, I don't suppose you know the name of the documentary? I wonder if the biggest reason he didn't hate his job was the gratitude from other people. One of my first jobs was stocking shelves on the graveyard shift at a grocery store, and the 1 hour or so before the store closed I would occasionally help shoppers find things, help take heavy things to their car, or help them reach items high on the shelf. A sincere thank you always made the 7h of mind numbing stocking go a lot faster.
- goldcd 7y ago
  Indeed. As I can't find a reference, you can treat this as anecdotal - but there was a radio story about 2 fifteen year old siblings who'd both 'taken up sweatshop work'. One was stitching trainers, one was doing embroidery - for very low wages. Initial 'outrage at child-labour' was confused slightly when they both said they were very happy, as they'd previously been working on their parents farm - and their sweatshop labour had allowed them to contribute towards a tractor for their village (replacing the labour of a whole load of children) - and for the first time they had some personal savings.
- anderspitman 7y ago
  > The gist of which is, a job can be ‘not good’ from the perspective of the privileged but still ‘much better than the alternatives’ from the perspective of the people who take that job. If you want to go deeper on this subject I highly recommend reading Factfulness.
- im3w1l 7y ago
  Consider that cartels are known to work, they allow more profit for participants. The reason they work is because the price of maximum profit is typically higher than the equilibrium price. Outlawing sweatshops effectively creates a wage / work conditions cartel.
jrochkind1 7y ago
Did he manage to transition to full-time/permanent? Where I live, I know some people who work/have worked in the local fulfillment center, and say that few people manage to transition to full-time/permanent, they seem to find ways to fire/lay off people before they get there, the workforce is constantly turning over. Different locations may be different though.
jrnichols 7y ago
It feels to me like some of these articles (at least past one) and the overwhelming majority of the anti-Prime Day posts on Facebook were written by people that had never worked even a single day at a warehouse job. The plight of the warehouse worker isn't unique to Amazon by any means. Not even close. From personal experience, I'd say the Amazon fulfillment gigs are way better than ones I did for other companies years ago.

by conorh 7y ago

seraphsf 7y ago

Reminds me of the classic Nicholas Kristof article, “Two Cheers for Sweatshops”. (http://archive.is/W6ABE http://archive.is/W6ABE) The gist of which is, a job can be ‘not good’ from the perspective of the privileged but still ‘much better than the alternatives’ from the perspective of the people who take that job. If the employer of a “sweatshop job” is not coercing or lying to its employees, then I have a hard time faulting the employer directly. We may still want systemic change to create more options and more equity for employees, but the “sweatshop” (that pays more than alternatives and which employees freely choose) is not the villain in this story.

hackermailman 7y ago
I saw a documentary once on a slum in Kampala, where they interviewed a guy living in the slum who's job it was to clean out the public toilets there. He claimed it was one of the 'best jobs', because he was paid on time, given a uniform/gloves to wear instead of having to buy one himself, set his own hours, and the labor was not back breaking agricultural labor in the open sun all day. He also remarked he was able to contribute to his community in a positive way by keeping it clean, something all the other residents rewarded him for with various tips as thanks for his service since they had to use those toilets everyday. Wasn't the response I expected.
- ishjoh 7y ago
  That's very interesting, I don't suppose you know the name of the documentary? I wonder if the biggest reason he didn't hate his job was the gratitude from other people. One of my first jobs was stocking shelves on the graveyard shift at a grocery store, and the 1 hour or so before the store closed I would occasionally help shoppers find things, help take heavy things to their car, or help them reach items high on the shelf. A sincere thank you always made the 7h of mind numbing stocking go a lot faster.
goldcd 7y ago
Indeed. As I can't find a reference, you can treat this as anecdotal - but there was a radio story about 2 fifteen year old siblings who'd both 'taken up sweatshop work'. One was stitching trainers, one was doing embroidery - for very low wages. Initial 'outrage at child-labour' was confused slightly when they both said they were very happy, as they'd previously been working on their parents farm - and their sweatshop labour had allowed them to contribute towards a tractor for their village (replacing the labour of a whole load of children) - and for the first time they had some personal savings.
anderspitman 7y ago
> The gist of which is, a job can be ‘not good’ from the perspective of the privileged but still ‘much better than the alternatives’ from the perspective of the people who take that job. If you want to go deeper on this subject I highly recommend reading Factfulness.
im3w1l 7y ago
Consider that cartels are known to work, they allow more profit for participants. The reason they work is because the price of maximum profit is typically higher than the equilibrium price. Outlawing sweatshops effectively creates a wage / work conditions cartel.

jrochkind1 7y ago

Did he manage to transition to full-time/permanent? Where I live, I know some people who work/have worked in the local fulfillment center, and say that few people manage to transition to full-time/permanent, they seem to find ways to fire/lay off people before they get there, the workforce is constantly turning over. Different locations may be different though.

jrnichols 7y ago

It feels to me like some of these articles (at least past one) and the overwhelming majority of the anti-Prime Day posts on Facebook were written by people that had never worked even a single day at a warehouse job. The plight of the warehouse worker isn't unique to Amazon by any means. Not even close. From personal experience, I'd say the Amazon fulfillment gigs are way better than ones I did for other companies years ago.