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I'm not surprised and the problem starts with buying a car. I've always purchased fairly low cost used cars but I recently went to a dealership for the first w

by nickjj 7y ago

I'm not surprised and the problem starts with buying a car. I've always purchased fairly low cost used cars but I recently went to a dealership for the first with someone who was getting a new car (for themselves). It boggles my mind how reluctant the salesman was to give the "real" price of the car. He also made it sound like it was a nearly impossible task just to get the actual amount the payments would be. He explained how it would take days, require making a charge and would have to get permission from his manager to even start the process. It was a total joke. They also did everything in their power never to mention the real price of the car with interest applied on the payments, but it's such a non-ignorable amount. It could easily end up being 20-25% on top of what the listed price is from interest. It really striked me as a situation where if you weren't detail oriented and let the salesman convince you into the purchase without running the numbers yourself you could easily get yourself in a lot of financial trouble.

davidjnelson 7y ago
You can find list prices and option prices on the manufacturer website. Then google for what discounts people are getting off msrp, as well as interest rates. Then tell the salesperson you know what if costs, and you’ll buy it if they give you that price. If they don’t, walk and use a lower hassle service like Cartelligent.
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  I think the point is that if avoiding, or outsmarting the main sales channel is required, then it probably explains why all the old, sick, busy, distracted people are struggling financially, as this is only one industry out to con them.
  - davidjnelson 7y ago
    Yes. These types of things can require mistakes to be made, and then self education once identified to prevent the same mistake in the future. Which is a lot to ask of someone running a family and working two jobs...
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
When I'm trying to contain my costs, I ask how much something costs if I pay 100% in cash right now. If they can't give me a number, I generally won't make the purchase. When they that I'm ready to walk away, they usually find a way to give me a number.
qes 7y ago
Where does personal responsibility come in? It's ludicrously easy to determine what payments will be, how much interest you'll pay, or what a narrow range of market price is for the vehicles you're considering. It's hard to imagine dropping tens of thousands of dollars without doing the slightest bit of common sense research as anything other than willful ignorance.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Too many people are buying cars using financial products they don't understand: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14476381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14476381
- nickjj 7y ago
  > It's hard to imagine dropping tens of thousands of dollars without doing the slightest bit of common sense research as anything other than willful ignorance. Totally. But most people don't do that. Instead, they walk into the door and listen to the "expert" selling the car who is doing everything in their power to rip you off or give you a false sense of what you're really paying for that $25,000+ listed item. It's insane to me that it's even legal. It's even worse than phone companies advertising something is $X per month but then there's 100 line items added in at the last second. Hotels do the same thing. It's no surprise so many people are in debt. So many companies (including medical facilities) do everything in their power to trick you or lie to you in order to make a sale.
wil421 7y ago
There’s basically 2 types of dealerships. One that sells at rock bottom prices, advertises low prices online no one fully qualifies for, and rarely negotiates much. They focus on what the maximum amount of month you can spend and nothing else. They are the ones selling big trucks and big engines for sky high rates, but not always. Sounds like this is the place you went. The second type of dealer doesn’t have tons of deals advertised and is usually priced on par with the places around them. They are much more focused on providing a nice sales experience and service. They usually have big lots and repeat customers. Baby boomers love them. You can haggle but they won’t hit rock bottom prices unless you pit two dealers against each other. All numbers are given to you and it doesn’t have the monthly cost tables.
- nickjj 7y ago
  This was a pretty big Ford dealership for reference. The sales guy was laser focused on the max amount being paid per month. Every question was around that and most non-monthly payment questions were diverted unless it was directly related to the listed price.

by nickjj 7y ago

davidjnelson 7y ago

You can find list prices and option prices on the manufacturer website. Then google for what discounts people are getting off msrp, as well as interest rates. Then tell the salesperson you know what if costs, and you’ll buy it if they give you that price. If they don’t, walk and use a lower hassle service like Cartelligent.

ZeroGravitas 7y ago
I think the point is that if avoiding, or outsmarting the main sales channel is required, then it probably explains why all the old, sick, busy, distracted people are struggling financially, as this is only one industry out to con them.
- davidjnelson 7y ago
  Yes. These types of things can require mistakes to be made, and then self education once identified to prevent the same mistake in the future. Which is a lot to ask of someone running a family and working two jobs...

PopeDotNinja 7y ago

When I'm trying to contain my costs, I ask how much something costs if I pay 100% in cash right now. If they can't give me a number, I generally won't make the purchase. When they that I'm ready to walk away, they usually find a way to give me a number.

qes 7y ago

Where does personal responsibility come in? It's ludicrously easy to determine what payments will be, how much interest you'll pay, or what a narrow range of market price is for the vehicles you're considering. It's hard to imagine dropping tens of thousands of dollars without doing the slightest bit of common sense research as anything other than willful ignorance.

DanBC 7y ago
Too many people are buying cars using financial products they don't understand: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14476381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14476381
nickjj 7y ago
> It's hard to imagine dropping tens of thousands of dollars without doing the slightest bit of common sense research as anything other than willful ignorance. Totally. But most people don't do that. Instead, they walk into the door and listen to the "expert" selling the car who is doing everything in their power to rip you off or give you a false sense of what you're really paying for that $25,000+ listed item. It's insane to me that it's even legal. It's even worse than phone companies advertising something is $X per month but then there's 100 line items added in at the last second. Hotels do the same thing. It's no surprise so many people are in debt. So many companies (including medical facilities) do everything in their power to trick you or lie to you in order to make a sale.

wil421 7y ago

There’s basically 2 types of dealerships. One that sells at rock bottom prices, advertises low prices online no one fully qualifies for, and rarely negotiates much. They focus on what the maximum amount of month you can spend and nothing else. They are the ones selling big trucks and big engines for sky high rates, but not always. Sounds like this is the place you went. The second type of dealer doesn’t have tons of deals advertised and is usually priced on par with the places around them. They are much more focused on providing a nice sales experience and service. They usually have big lots and repeat customers. Baby boomers love them. You can haggle but they won’t hit rock bottom prices unless you pit two dealers against each other. All numbers are given to you and it doesn’t have the monthly cost tables.

nickjj 7y ago
This was a pretty big Ford dealership for reference. The sales guy was laser focused on the max amount being paid per month. Every question was around that and most non-monthly payment questions were diverted unless it was directly related to the listed price.