5 ms·

Those traffic fatalities are vastly more vehicle-vehicle collisions. I believe the EU even in the last decade legislated car design changes to address the risks

Those traffic fatalities are vastly more vehicle-vehicle collisions. I believe the EU even in the last decade legislated car design changes to address the risks of vehicle-pedestrian accidents that are far more prevalent there.

TulliusCicero 7y ago
Of course they're more vehicle-vehicle in the US; hardly anyone walks in America. Just look at the stats. Even the walk-iest big city in the US, NYC, only has like 6% walk mode share. However, controlled for number of trips/distance, being a pedestrian in the US is generally quite dangerous compared to elsewhere.
- Misdicorl 7y ago
  I see 28% walk share for NYC (pdf warning): http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-citywide-mobility-survey-report-2017.pdf http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-citywide-mo...
  - TulliusCicero 7y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share
    - Misdicorl 7y ago
      That link is only considering commutes to/from work. That traffic is very segregated in suburban communities. Notably, its also usually very far from where children hang out.
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        Fair, though it still indicates that Americans walk much less than Germans if for commuting Germans are using walking so much more.
- Misdicorl 7y ago
  I'd be interested to see a source about comparative pedestrian safety. I'd be literally shocked if small suburban streets weren't safer than almost any other option.
  - kspaans 7y ago
    Here is Scarborough, an eastern suburb (with the suburban neighbourhoods you'd expect) in the City of Toronto. > Incidents in Scarborough have accounted for more than 46 per cent (or 19 of 41) of pedestrian deaths this year, despite the eastern borough containing just 23 per cent of the city’s population and about 26 per cent of its road kilometrage. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/12/07/toronto-appears-to-have-hit-a-one-year-high-in-pedestrian-and-cyclist-fatalities-over-40-per-cent-of-those-deaths-happened-in-scarborough.html https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/12/07/toronto-appears-...
    - Misdicorl 7y ago
      This is certainly damning. However, it seems like all the incidents are happening on the interconnection suburban roads, not the inner neighborhood roads. Faint praise to be sure; walking and biking as a mode of transportation should be safe and encouraged.
  - TulliusCicero 7y ago
    > I'd be literally shocked if small suburban streets weren't safer than almost any other option. Depends on what you mean by 'small suburban streets' I guess. If you mean in small suburbs, I would find that surprising, if you mean the street itself being very narrow then yeah maybe. But relatively few American suburbs have actually narrow streets. To most Americans, "there's only barely enough room for parked cars on both sides plus 2 lanes of moving traffic to pass each other" means it's narrow. Random reference I just saw: so far this year Seattle has had 10 traffic fatalities, 4 of them on foot vs 5 with vehicles, despite walking being far less popular than driving in Seattle (which is not nearly as walk-friendly as NYC).

TulliusCicero 7y ago

Of course they're more vehicle-vehicle in the US; hardly anyone walks in America. Just look at the stats. Even the walk-iest big city in the US, NYC, only has like 6% walk mode share. However, controlled for number of trips/distance, being a pedestrian in the US is generally quite dangerous compared to elsewhere.

Misdicorl 7y ago
I see 28% walk share for NYC (pdf warning): http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-citywide-mobility-survey-report-2017.pdf http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nycdot-citywide-mo...
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share
  - Misdicorl 7y ago
    That link is only considering commutes to/from work. That traffic is very segregated in suburban communities. Notably, its also usually very far from where children hang out.
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      Fair, though it still indicates that Americans walk much less than Germans if for commuting Germans are using walking so much more.
Misdicorl 7y ago
I'd be interested to see a source about comparative pedestrian safety. I'd be literally shocked if small suburban streets weren't safer than almost any other option.
- kspaans 7y ago
  Here is Scarborough, an eastern suburb (with the suburban neighbourhoods you'd expect) in the City of Toronto. > Incidents in Scarborough have accounted for more than 46 per cent (or 19 of 41) of pedestrian deaths this year, despite the eastern borough containing just 23 per cent of the city’s population and about 26 per cent of its road kilometrage. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/12/07/toronto-appears-to-have-hit-a-one-year-high-in-pedestrian-and-cyclist-fatalities-over-40-per-cent-of-those-deaths-happened-in-scarborough.html https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/12/07/toronto-appears-...
  - Misdicorl 7y ago
    This is certainly damning. However, it seems like all the incidents are happening on the interconnection suburban roads, not the inner neighborhood roads. Faint praise to be sure; walking and biking as a mode of transportation should be safe and encouraged.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  > I'd be literally shocked if small suburban streets weren't safer than almost any other option. Depends on what you mean by 'small suburban streets' I guess. If you mean in small suburbs, I would find that surprising, if you mean the street itself being very narrow then yeah maybe. But relatively few American suburbs have actually narrow streets. To most Americans, "there's only barely enough room for parked cars on both sides plus 2 lanes of moving traffic to pass each other" means it's narrow. Random reference I just saw: so far this year Seattle has had 10 traffic fatalities, 4 of them on foot vs 5 with vehicles, despite walking being far less popular than driving in Seattle (which is not nearly as walk-friendly as NYC).