3 ms·

Java real time deployment has nothing to do with whether java can be considered a systems programming language. Why would it?

yellowapple 7y ago
Because a pretty effective litmus test for whether or not something is usable as a systems programming language is "can a program written in the language run on bare metal?". If even Java can (somehow) tick that box, then so can Go. That said, you're right that Java itself probably doesn't tick that box (except on hardware specifically designed to emulate the JVM; most "Java" OS projects use a small JVM written in a less-VM-dependent language), but Go provably does.
- rowanG077 7y ago
  That's a ridiculous conclusion. ANY language can be ran bare metal with enough effort.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Including C, because ISO C doesn't provide any support for writing kernels. So with enough effort given external Assembly written functions and compiler specific language extensions and enough market share thanks UNIX clones, many mistake it as the only true way.
    - rowanG077 7y ago
      yes including C. C is a horrible language but it was the best choice back then. Now we have Rust though. Choosing any other language then Rust to greenfield an OS at this point is stupid.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Thankfully OS researchers decide on their own what makes sense regarding writing OS in memory safe systems languages. Stupid is not being open minded how the future might look like, how great researchers like Alan Kay envisioned the future of computing without constraining themselves to what others thought of them, we don't need faster horses.
        rowanG077 7y ago
        We do need faster horses. Especially now since CPUs we are at the cusp of CPUs no longer in speed.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Thankfully Ford thought otherwise. A big thanks to all inventors and entrepreneurs (this is HN after all) that were able to build on top of endless failures from previous generations and deliver technological achievements that mankind is now able to enjoy, persisting on their endeavours, while a large majority was downplaying all their efforts.
        rowanG077 7y ago
        > Thankfully Ford thought otherwise. Implying a language with a GC can go 10x as fast as a language without one. What are you smoking man I want some of that stuff.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        It is an anti-luddite stuff, which seems not be coming across, nevermind.

yellowapple 7y ago

Because a pretty effective litmus test for whether or not something is usable as a systems programming language is "can a program written in the language run on bare metal?". If even Java can (somehow) tick that box, then so can Go. That said, you're right that Java itself probably doesn't tick that box (except on hardware specifically designed to emulate the JVM; most "Java" OS projects use a small JVM written in a less-VM-dependent language), but Go provably does.

rowanG077 7y ago
That's a ridiculous conclusion. ANY language can be ran bare metal with enough effort.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Including C, because ISO C doesn't provide any support for writing kernels. So with enough effort given external Assembly written functions and compiler specific language extensions and enough market share thanks UNIX clones, many mistake it as the only true way.
  - rowanG077 7y ago
    yes including C. C is a horrible language but it was the best choice back then. Now we have Rust though. Choosing any other language then Rust to greenfield an OS at this point is stupid.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Thankfully OS researchers decide on their own what makes sense regarding writing OS in memory safe systems languages. Stupid is not being open minded how the future might look like, how great researchers like Alan Kay envisioned the future of computing without constraining themselves to what others thought of them, we don't need faster horses.
      - rowanG077 7y ago
        We do need faster horses. Especially now since CPUs we are at the cusp of CPUs no longer in speed.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Thankfully Ford thought otherwise. A big thanks to all inventors and entrepreneurs (this is HN after all) that were able to build on top of endless failures from previous generations and deliver technological achievements that mankind is now able to enjoy, persisting on their endeavours, while a large majority was downplaying all their efforts.
        rowanG077 7y ago
        > Thankfully Ford thought otherwise. Implying a language with a GC can go 10x as fast as a language without one. What are you smoking man I want some of that stuff.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        It is an anti-luddite stuff, which seems not be coming across, nevermind.