17 ms·

Often what the municipalities are doing for public records is harder and more expensive than just publishing an API. So The funding excuse doesn't really cut mu

Often what the municipalities are doing for public records is harder and more expensive than just publishing an API. So The funding excuse doesn't really cut muster with me.

floatingatoll 7y ago
Can you name a single for-profit public records scraper who republishes the parsed data scraped without charging for data access? The public records are public. Charging for them is, by the above arguments, immoral. Therefore, not only the municipalities but also the businesses profiting from those public records owe us their scraped data, for free, without regard for profit concerns. Not one for-profit business does so. Why is their immoral action acceptable, when the same action by a municipality is not?
- devxvda 7y ago
  Loveland (now apparently called Landgrid). https://landgrid.com/ https://landgrid.com/
  - zaphod4prez 7y ago
    Loveland is such a cool organization
- stickfigure 7y ago
  There's nothing immoral about charging for content that you've aggregated. People sell dictionaries. The problem here is that instead of building APIs (or just posting to FTP sites), governments are building offices and funding staff to answer snail mail requests. Or building sophisticated web forms and search engines. It's obvious how we got to this point (before the internet, you obtained public records by walking into an office) but it's long past time to change. We don't need fancy web forms to search and find data; cut all that out and just provide data in machine readable form to anyone who wants it. Someone will build a pretty commercial interface to public records data. Chances are, they can do it for less than the 8-figure sum required for UI development in the public sector. Win-win.
  - pyrale 7y ago
    It is not obvious to me that reducing the cost to consult public data is necessarily a good thing. Just because this data is accessible, it should not amways also be accessible inexpensively. Example given: trial records should be public but it would probably not be nice to have all your judicial record displayed in people's glasses.
    - cameronbrown 7y ago
      Disagree. It's inherently in the public interest to have access to this data as easily as possible. If it's too embarrassing then that's a cultural problem.
  - z3t4 7y ago
    Some "public" records are in the gray area as in; should or should they not (black and white) be published. For example salaries, the employer might forbid disclosing salaries, but anyone can just request anyone's salary from the government because its public. But if they could be downloaded from an FTP ...
    - thekyle 7y ago
      What government agency allows you to see arbitrary other peoples salaries?
      - desas 7y ago
        Tax records are published in Sweden, Finland and Norway
    - BEEdwards 7y ago
      In the US it is illegal for employers to forbid disclosing salaries. Discussing salaries is a taboo created by industries to stifle wages. https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/truth-about-discussing-your-salary https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/truth-about-di...
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Can you name a single for-profit public records scraper who republishes the parsed data scraped without charging for data access? Currently? Not off the top of my head. But there was one that scraped municipal records in a large midwest city and made them public for free because they were confusing to get to otherwise. Unfortunately, the company was bought by a larger company and that portion of what they did was shut down.

Often what the municipalities are doing for public records is harder and more expensive than just publishing an API. So The funding excuse doesn't really cut muster with me.

floatingatoll 7y ago

Can you name a single for-profit public records scraper who republishes the parsed data scraped without charging for data access? The public records are public. Charging for them is, by the above arguments, immoral. Therefore, not only the municipalities but also the businesses profiting from those public records owe us their scraped data, for free, without regard for profit concerns. Not one for-profit business does so. Why is their immoral action acceptable, when the same action by a municipality is not?

devxvda 7y ago
Loveland (now apparently called Landgrid). https://landgrid.com/ https://landgrid.com/
- zaphod4prez 7y ago
  Loveland is such a cool organization
stickfigure 7y ago
There's nothing immoral about charging for content that you've aggregated. People sell dictionaries. The problem here is that instead of building APIs (or just posting to FTP sites), governments are building offices and funding staff to answer snail mail requests. Or building sophisticated web forms and search engines. It's obvious how we got to this point (before the internet, you obtained public records by walking into an office) but it's long past time to change. We don't need fancy web forms to search and find data; cut all that out and just provide data in machine readable form to anyone who wants it. Someone will build a pretty commercial interface to public records data. Chances are, they can do it for less than the 8-figure sum required for UI development in the public sector. Win-win.
- pyrale 7y ago
  It is not obvious to me that reducing the cost to consult public data is necessarily a good thing. Just because this data is accessible, it should not amways also be accessible inexpensively. Example given: trial records should be public but it would probably not be nice to have all your judicial record displayed in people's glasses.
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    Disagree. It's inherently in the public interest to have access to this data as easily as possible. If it's too embarrassing then that's a cultural problem.
- z3t4 7y ago
  Some "public" records are in the gray area as in; should or should they not (black and white) be published. For example salaries, the employer might forbid disclosing salaries, but anyone can just request anyone's salary from the government because its public. But if they could be downloaded from an FTP ...
  - thekyle 7y ago
    What government agency allows you to see arbitrary other peoples salaries?
    - desas 7y ago
      Tax records are published in Sweden, Finland and Norway
  - BEEdwards 7y ago
    In the US it is illegal for employers to forbid disclosing salaries. Discussing salaries is a taboo created by industries to stifle wages. https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/truth-about-discussing-your-salary https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/truth-about-di...
reaperducer 7y ago
Can you name a single for-profit public records scraper who republishes the parsed data scraped without charging for data access? Currently? Not off the top of my head. But there was one that scraped municipal records in a large midwest city and made them public for free because they were confusing to get to otherwise. Unfortunately, the company was bought by a larger company and that portion of what they did was shut down.