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> Lisp machines were sold in the market, before UNIX Workstations won over thanks for being based on source code available at a symbolic price, thus cutting dow
by rowanG077 7y ago
> Lisp machines were sold in the market, before UNIX Workstations won over thanks for being based on source code available at a symbolic price, thus cutting down their hardware costs.
And yet despite their early popularity they died of.
> ETHZ had their Oberon workstations servicing the complete CS department for around 10 years.
I don't consider something running in a CS department as a success. CS department run all kinds of wacky shit. That's basically why they are there.
> Midori powered part of Bing during its high time.
An OS that runs a single application in the real world. That proves nothing.
You haven't convinced me that a production grade OS implemented with a GC can tick every box an OS which doesn't have a GC can tick.
On the contrary actually. For all the experimentation that has been done not a single one has actually panned out. The possible programs you can create that have a GC is a subset of all possible programs that can be created without a GC.
- pjmlp 7y agoJava real time deployments used by military prove otherwise. I guess we always have to wait for them to develop top technology before the masses accept it.
- rowanG077 7y agoJava real time deployment has nothing to do with whether java can be considered a systems programming language. Why would it?
- yellowapple 7y agoBecause a pretty effective litmus test for whether or not something is usable as a systems programming language is "can a program written in the language run on bare metal?". If even Java can (somehow) tick that box, then so can Go. That said, you're right that Java itself probably doesn't tick that box (except on hardware specifically designed to emulate the JVM; most "Java" OS projects use a small JVM written in a less-VM-dependent language), but Go provably does.
- rowanG077 7y agoThat's a ridiculous conclusion. ANY language can be ran bare metal with enough effort.
- pjmlp 7y agoIncluding C, because ISO C doesn't provide any support for writing kernels. So with enough effort given external Assembly written functions and compiler specific language extensions and enough market share thanks UNIX clones, many mistake it as the only true way.
- rowanG077 7y agoyes including C. C is a horrible language but it was the best choice back then. Now we have Rust though. Choosing any other language then Rust to greenfield an OS at this point is stupid.
- pjmlp 7y agoThankfully OS researchers decide on their own what makes sense regarding writing OS in memory safe systems languages. Stupid is not being open minded how the future might look like, how great researchers like Alan Kay envisioned the future of computing without constraining themselves to what others thought of them, we don't need faster horses.
- rowanG077 7y agoWe do need faster horses. Especially now since CPUs we are at the cusp of CPUs no longer in speed.
- pjmlp 7y agoThankfully Ford thought otherwise. A big thanks to all inventors and entrepreneurs (this is HN after all) that were able to build on top of endless failures from previous generations and deliver technological achievements that mankind is now able to enjoy, persisting on their endeavours, while a large majority was downplaying all their efforts.