3 ms·

How do you decide the baseline emissions for the tax and tariffs, internationally? China emits about half the carbon as the USA, per capita. So is the USA willi

How do you decide the baseline emissions for the tax and tariffs, internationally? China emits about half the carbon as the USA, per capita. So is the USA willing to pay tax to China unidirectionally, until we get to their level? Does China need to keep their current per capita levels to avoid extra tariffs? How, roughly, could this work politically at a global level, in a way that also works within the politics of each individual country?

LoSboccacc 7y ago
china measured emission are about half of usa measured emission. china non measured emissions are another story. soot is yet another story, because not all co2 is created equally efficiently. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-climatechange-insight/the-unbearable-lightness-of-chinese-emissions-data-idUSKCN0SX0WS20151108 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-climatechange-insig... oh, and there's all the other shit china does of course https://nationalpost.com/news/world/scientists-discover-china-has-been-secretly-emitting-banned-ozone-depleting-gas https://nationalpost.com/news/world/scientists-discover-chin... but somehow people dodge the issue every time with 'but the usa per capita' as if these measurement are really comparable. e: wow, struck a nerve there? sourced with articles, even. now let's wait for dang to come and say this is 'unsubstantive'
- darkpuma 7y ago
  If that is true, then the situation seems intractable. The Chinese government won't want to pay for anything beyond it's official figures, but the rest of the world has no interest in those bogus figures being used.
  - amluto 7y ago
    I think it’s possible to get a decent overall estimate of emissions in a given area by measuring local variations in CO2 levels.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
There are no payments between countries. It's a tax and an import tariff on countries that don't have the tax (or an equivalent like tax and trade). William Nordhaus has done the math, you can read his papers for more details and appropriate levels. Of course the fact that we didn't implement in 2015 when he did his calculations means that the appropriate levels are higher than they were then.

LoSboccacc 7y ago

china measured emission are about half of usa measured emission. china non measured emissions are another story. soot is yet another story, because not all co2 is created equally efficiently. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-climatechange-insight/the-unbearable-lightness-of-chinese-emissions-data-idUSKCN0SX0WS20151108 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-climatechange-insig... oh, and there's all the other shit china does of course https://nationalpost.com/news/world/scientists-discover-china-has-been-secretly-emitting-banned-ozone-depleting-gas https://nationalpost.com/news/world/scientists-discover-chin... but somehow people dodge the issue every time with 'but the usa per capita' as if these measurement are really comparable. e: wow, struck a nerve there? sourced with articles, even. now let's wait for dang to come and say this is 'unsubstantive'

darkpuma 7y ago
If that is true, then the situation seems intractable. The Chinese government won't want to pay for anything beyond it's official figures, but the rest of the world has no interest in those bogus figures being used.
- amluto 7y ago
  I think it’s possible to get a decent overall estimate of emissions in a given area by measuring local variations in CO2 levels.

bryanlarsen 7y ago

There are no payments between countries. It's a tax and an import tariff on countries that don't have the tax (or an equivalent like tax and trade). William Nordhaus has done the math, you can read his papers for more details and appropriate levels. Of course the fact that we didn't implement in 2015 when he did his calculations means that the appropriate levels are higher than they were then.