3 ms·

Ramsey Orta filmed the killing of Eric Garner–so the police punished him

85 points by jseliger 7y ago

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
I'm gonna catch a lot of shit for saying this but nothing will change until people start speaking a language that law enforcement understands: violence. It took a few dudes with a box truck to ensure that federal law enforcement doesn't try to fight it out against armed white people. The main perpetrator spend a couple years telling anyone who would listen about the misdeeds of the FBI but what it took for society to take notice was that he eventually decided to punish the "good cops" for the actions of the bad. I don't know what it's gonna take to get urban police departments to stop killing people for no good reason. I have no idea when it will happen. I have no idea what disillusioned extremists will do it. I know that whatever it is will almost certainly involve more killing. Law enforcement isn't going to get the message until something so over the top happens that is causes the nation, politicians included, to ask WTF happened that lead us here. So when in 5, 10, 50 years some people get so fed up with this that a few of the most extreme take it upon themselves to start stacking bodies and everyone acts like it was totally unexpected I'll be solidly in the "I told you so" camp. The hole is being dug with a shovel. Don't be surprised when a shovel is what gets us out. The solution, whenever it arrives, will be judicial, not legislative. Right now there is a double standard. Police are allowed to act in ways that ordinary people are not. It is like something of of the middle ages where knights/lords/etc could inflict violence on a whim but peasants would be put to death if they acted that way. That double standard exists because of qualified immunity. Qualified immunity does not have a basis in statute. It is something the courts pulled out of their collective asses in order to not hold cops accountable. They can shove it back up their asses and let the criminal charges and the lawsuits fly. That will hopefully provide the necessary motivation to police to clean up their act. Edit: I'm not calling for violence, just saying it's inevitable.
- pontifier 7y ago
  In my opinion, you are completely right. Corruption is rampant in all levels of the justice system. I believe corruption degrades faith in the rule of law and is the biggest threat to this nation. As such it is treason and should be punishable by death.
  - oceanghost 7y ago
    "If the people be led by laws and uniformity sought to be given them by punishments, they will try to avoid the punishment but have no sense of guilt. If they be led by virtue and uniformity sought to be given them by the rules of propriety, they will have the sense of guilt and moreover will become good." (Analects, bk. ii., c. iii.)
- dang 7y ago
  I'm not sure to what extent you're calling for violence, justifying it, or just being ostentatiously edgy about it, but please don't do any of those things on HN.
  - staticautomatic 7y ago
    Anti-establishment violence was something of an American past time until not long ago. Are we not allowed to talk about it? Or are you just worried about HN's legal liability?
    - dang 7y ago
      I'm worried about the community here.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - staticautomatic 7y ago
        In what way?
        dang 7y ago
        Aggressive comments about violence take this community away from curiosity (its purpose) and provoke others into doing the same.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        staticautomatic 7y ago
        I think that's a totally unreasonable interpretation of what was posted and a totally unfounded fear. I hope you will reconsider your position.
tuxxy 7y ago
> The symptoms were consistent with human consumption of rat poison, and when the tainted meatloaf was finally tested, the results found that the blue-green pellets visible in the meatloaf were brodifacoum, the active ingredient in rodenticide. Holy shit. I had no idea this happened, but this is just straight up appalling. The state of the US prison system is incredibly fucked up. It just seems like the worst of the worst become COs just so they can fuck with prisoners, but this is taking it to another level.
- 481092 7y ago
  I read that and assumed there'd be a followup investigation of attempted mass murder but nothing. Was justice served, or even half-heartedly attempted and the article didn't mention it? The story lacks or justice lacks, hopefully the former.

85 points by jseliger 7y ago

I'm gonna catch a lot of shit for saying this but nothing will change until people start speaking a language that law enforcement understands: violence. It took a few dudes with a box truck to ensure that federal law enforcement doesn't try to fight it out against armed white people. The main perpetrator spend a couple years telling anyone who would listen about the misdeeds of the FBI but what it took for society to take notice was that he eventually decided to punish the "good cops" for the actions of the bad. I don't know what it's gonna take to get urban police departments to stop killing people for no good reason. I have no idea when it will happen. I have no idea what disillusioned extremists will do it. I know that whatever it is will almost certainly involve more killing. Law enforcement isn't going to get the message until something so over the top happens that is causes the nation, politicians included, to ask WTF happened that lead us here. So when in 5, 10, 50 years some people get so fed up with this that a few of the most extreme take it upon themselves to start stacking bodies and everyone acts like it was totally unexpected I'll be solidly in the "I told you so" camp. The hole is being dug with a shovel. Don't be surprised when a shovel is what gets us out. The solution, whenever it arrives, will be judicial, not legislative. Right now there is a double standard. Police are allowed to act in ways that ordinary people are not. It is like something of of the middle ages where knights/lords/etc could inflict violence on a whim but peasants would be put to death if they acted that way. That double standard exists because of qualified immunity. Qualified immunity does not have a basis in statute. It is something the courts pulled out of their collective asses in order to not hold cops accountable. They can shove it back up their asses and let the criminal charges and the lawsuits fly. That will hopefully provide the necessary motivation to police to clean up their act. Edit: I'm not calling for violence, just saying it's inevitable.

pontifier 7y ago
In my opinion, you are completely right. Corruption is rampant in all levels of the justice system. I believe corruption degrades faith in the rule of law and is the biggest threat to this nation. As such it is treason and should be punishable by death.
- oceanghost 7y ago
  "If the people be led by laws and uniformity sought to be given them by punishments, they will try to avoid the punishment but have no sense of guilt. If they be led by virtue and uniformity sought to be given them by the rules of propriety, they will have the sense of guilt and moreover will become good." (Analects, bk. ii., c. iii.)
dang 7y ago
I'm not sure to what extent you're calling for violence, justifying it, or just being ostentatiously edgy about it, but please don't do any of those things on HN.
- staticautomatic 7y ago
  Anti-establishment violence was something of an American past time until not long ago. Are we not allowed to talk about it? Or are you just worried about HN's legal liability?
  - dang 7y ago
    I'm worried about the community here.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - staticautomatic 7y ago
      In what way?
      - dang 7y ago
        Aggressive comments about violence take this community away from curiosity (its purpose) and provoke others into doing the same.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        staticautomatic 7y ago
        I think that's a totally unreasonable interpretation of what was posted and a totally unfounded fear. I hope you will reconsider your position.

tuxxy 7y ago

> The symptoms were consistent with human consumption of rat poison, and when the tainted meatloaf was finally tested, the results found that the blue-green pellets visible in the meatloaf were brodifacoum, the active ingredient in rodenticide. Holy shit. I had no idea this happened, but this is just straight up appalling. The state of the US prison system is incredibly fucked up. It just seems like the worst of the worst become COs just so they can fuck with prisoners, but this is taking it to another level.

481092 7y ago
I read that and assumed there'd be a followup investigation of attempted mass murder but nothing. Was justice served, or even half-heartedly attempted and the article didn't mention it? The story lacks or justice lacks, hopefully the former.