2 ms·

How do we know this w/o the full text of the logs?

tptacek 16y ago
Easy. You take the logs that Wired did release, and the information that Greenwald claims wasn't in there that was documented outside Wired, and you see if they're in there. Wired just went on the record saying they are. Go refute the claim.
cma 16y ago
We don't; how do I know you aren't payed by the government to say this unless right now you disclose all of your bank account credentials so I can check? (/sarcasm) Greenwald's piece was predicated on new information coming to light (Lamo's recent allegations) that showed there was missing details in the chat logs that were material to the case. Wired refuted this; I just looked at the logs again and their refutation makes sense to me.
- grandalf 16y ago
  Ok, so if the chat logs are eventually revealed and they contain information relevant to the accusations against Assange, then you will reverse your opinion?
  - cma 16y ago
    I'd gladly reverse my view on Wired in that case; I won't reverse my view on Greenwald's article; the information he used to back his argument doesn't make sense. If the conclusion ends up being correct, the argument still will have been bogus.
Bud 16y ago
Tp: Uh, I think I'd rather just see the chat logs. Seems to me the Wired piece is long on unrelated attacks on Greenwald, and short on a lot of other things, like a convincing explanation of why they won't release the logs.
- tptacek 16y ago
  Who wouldn't want the chat logs? I'm sure they're a lot more fun to read than Wired's summary of what's in the chat logs. What's your point? It is not interesting or insightful to point out that everyone wants the chat logs and will not be satisfied with anything but the chat logs. Yes. You are on record: you demand the chat logs. It is clearly obvious that you would want the chat logs. Wired says: no. They gave their reasons. You are not going to agree with any of those reasons, because you want to read the chat logs, and you are a commenter on a nerd message board and as such you see all those reasons as a logical system to be gamed to achieve the outcome you desire. I don't blame you because I too am commenting on a nerd message board. But: be self aware about it.
  - grandalf 16y ago
    I think the issue is that Wired doesn't really come across as trustworthy and very well might be withholding relevant information. There are still a few somewhat fishy aspects to the story.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      There's nothing they can reasonably do to not be "fishy" to WL supporters. Releasing the chat transcripts no more gets Wired out of the Lamo/Poulsen quandary than releasing the physical hard copy birth certificate gets Obama out of the birther quandary. People should just admit it. They don't want the chat logs because it will make them believe Wired more. They want the chat logs because the chat logs are fun drama. It doesn't make you a bad person to concede that; it just makes you a human being.
      - grandalf 16y ago
        Hah. I really don't care about the personal drama in the logs. I mostly want to see where Assange stands at this point with respect to evidence (aside from potential testimony by Manning) that he violated the espionage act.
  - Bud 16y ago

Easy. You take the logs that Wired did release, and the information that Greenwald claims wasn't in there that was documented outside Wired, and you see if they're in there. Wired just went on the record saying they are. Go refute the claim.

cma 16y ago

We don't; how do I know you aren't payed by the government to say this unless right now you disclose all of your bank account credentials so I can check? (/sarcasm) Greenwald's piece was predicated on new information coming to light (Lamo's recent allegations) that showed there was missing details in the chat logs that were material to the case. Wired refuted this; I just looked at the logs again and their refutation makes sense to me.

grandalf 16y ago
Ok, so if the chat logs are eventually revealed and they contain information relevant to the accusations against Assange, then you will reverse your opinion?
- cma 16y ago
  I'd gladly reverse my view on Wired in that case; I won't reverse my view on Greenwald's article; the information he used to back his argument doesn't make sense. If the conclusion ends up being correct, the argument still will have been bogus.

Bud 16y ago

Tp: Uh, I think I'd rather just see the chat logs. Seems to me the Wired piece is long on unrelated attacks on Greenwald, and short on a lot of other things, like a convincing explanation of why they won't release the logs.

tptacek 16y ago
Who wouldn't want the chat logs? I'm sure they're a lot more fun to read than Wired's summary of what's in the chat logs. What's your point? It is not interesting or insightful to point out that everyone wants the chat logs and will not be satisfied with anything but the chat logs. Yes. You are on record: you demand the chat logs. It is clearly obvious that you would want the chat logs. Wired says: no. They gave their reasons. You are not going to agree with any of those reasons, because you want to read the chat logs, and you are a commenter on a nerd message board and as such you see all those reasons as a logical system to be gamed to achieve the outcome you desire. I don't blame you because I too am commenting on a nerd message board. But: be self aware about it.
- grandalf 16y ago
  I think the issue is that Wired doesn't really come across as trustworthy and very well might be withholding relevant information. There are still a few somewhat fishy aspects to the story.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    There's nothing they can reasonably do to not be "fishy" to WL supporters. Releasing the chat transcripts no more gets Wired out of the Lamo/Poulsen quandary than releasing the physical hard copy birth certificate gets Obama out of the birther quandary. People should just admit it. They don't want the chat logs because it will make them believe Wired more. They want the chat logs because the chat logs are fun drama. It doesn't make you a bad person to concede that; it just makes you a human being.
    - grandalf 16y ago
      Hah. I really don't care about the personal drama in the logs. I mostly want to see where Assange stands at this point with respect to evidence (aside from potential testimony by Manning) that he violated the espionage act.
- Bud 16y ago