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>> inc tests and docs Why should the client have to worry about tests or developer documentation? I would not be trying to get it as a line item on the invoic

>> inc tests and docs Why should the client have to worry about tests or developer documentation? I would not be trying to get it as a line item on the invoice. Keeping the code base in a state that makes it fast and cheap to add future features is just a professional duty. Decide how to best achieve that on a project by project basis and bake it into your estimates. Some projects the client just wants the absolute cheapest implementation though and i am completely fine ripping out the need for continual re-factoring or keeping the test suites in good shape IF i've explained the down side to the client first.

tluyben2 7y ago
You are right, my point is that this is the HN echo chamber; I see almost no-one and no company doing this in real life. At least not in the countries and companies I have ever worked with and that's quite diverse. Naming and shaming makes no sense here, but I know many Silicon Valley, Berlin, London, HK, Shanghai, Barcelona startups saying that they 'will' do these things (and some of them shouting on Reddit & HN it's bad if you do not) but not doing them at all and many fortune 1000 companies not doing it either. Not even the basic stuff. So yes, it's my professional duty, but my 'competition' doesn't do it and is therefor cheaper. I don't do much of that work anymore as I now do a lot more own products with my company where I can do it, but if I 'bake it into the estimates' we will come out most expensive. So for us it's line items, and if you, after we explain everything, do not want that, we will remove or not take the contract (depending on the terms).