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If someone is in a situation where their property's valuation cannot be evaluated by the sale of similar objects on the market, then they are without exception

If someone is in a situation where their property's valuation cannot be evaluated by the sale of similar objects on the market, then they are without exception able to afford to pay the taxes on it. The story discussed here applies only to the extremely wealthy, and such people don't deserve any pity for having to contribute back to the society that allowed them to accumulate such wealth.

close04 7y ago
What happens when it doesn't involve a [mb]illionaire but regular people?
- coldpie 7y ago
  How do you imagine a non-[mb]illionaire would find themself in this situation?
  - close04 7y ago
    In the situation of dealing with the IRS for any kind of inheritance they have to pay taxes for? Or actually anything they own if it turns out the IRS can simply have it's own estimation of value and taxes based on that? If the IRS can just blurt out their own evaluation overriding any independent appraiser, even bump it up 300+% between draft and final evaluation, and tax you based on it then yes I do see quite a few people in this situation. I'll try to assume the best interpretation of what you wanted to say and guess that maybe you didn't think that if the IRS can do this for a $1bn inheritance (than can or cannot be sold) they can also do it for a $100 inheritance. It's the principle of them being allowed to make the authoritative appraisal (not their job) that's the issue here, not that they collect taxes (their job).
magduf 7y ago
What if I make my own (admittedly very crappy) art? I probably wouldn't be able to get $1 for it because it would be so bad, and it's totally unique so by definition it can't be valued by the sale of similar objects on the market (any art is just like this). So should I be forced to pay millions of dollars in taxes on it?
- coldpie 7y ago
  Don't be absurd. The object in question is not value-less, it is illegal to sell. It's an awkward corner case, not something to get upset about.
  - close04 7y ago
    Your assumption is that the IRS's right to override appraisers comes with a fine print that says "applicable only in an awkward corner case" (in this case "items that cannot be legally sold"). I'm pretty sure if they're indeed allowed to do this and the conditions are defined as narrowly as possible (still to be decided in court I guess) then it can be easily abused. And the article doesn't suggest that such an exception exists. And that's not even discussing yet the process through which an appraisal gets bumped up by over 300% between 2 steps that were both considered to be solid enough to actually be sent out.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Please use some common sense here. If you couldn't even sell it for a $1, then how are you expecting it to be valued at more than $1? The IRS valuation of art and other collectibles is based on polling independent third-parties the likely fair-market value of the art/collectible at issue. If the situation proceeds to court, then they develop a formal appraisal (or occasionally hire an independent third-party appraisal, depending on the item being examined).
longerthoughts 7y ago
>The story discussed here applies only to the extremely wealthy, and such people don't deserve any pity for having to contribute back to the society that allowed them to accumulate such wealth. Nobody here is crying for rich people having to pay taxes on assets with a value that can actually be realized - this is a question of fairness and logical consistency. At exactly what level of wealth are you arguing that the government should be able to make logically inconsistent determinations about how much you owe them? >If someone is in a situation where their property's valuation cannot be evaluated by the sale of similar objects on the market, then they are without exception able to afford to pay the taxes on it. If anything this article proves that the exact opposite is possible. If I owned "Canyon" - which I can't sell - and my remaining assets are valued lower than the tax on "Canyon" based on the initial IRS assessment, then I couldn't afford to pay the taxes on it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

close04 7y ago

What happens when it doesn't involve a [mb]illionaire but regular people?

coldpie 7y ago
How do you imagine a non-[mb]illionaire would find themself in this situation?
- close04 7y ago
  In the situation of dealing with the IRS for any kind of inheritance they have to pay taxes for? Or actually anything they own if it turns out the IRS can simply have it's own estimation of value and taxes based on that? If the IRS can just blurt out their own evaluation overriding any independent appraiser, even bump it up 300+% between draft and final evaluation, and tax you based on it then yes I do see quite a few people in this situation. I'll try to assume the best interpretation of what you wanted to say and guess that maybe you didn't think that if the IRS can do this for a $1bn inheritance (than can or cannot be sold) they can also do it for a $100 inheritance. It's the principle of them being allowed to make the authoritative appraisal (not their job) that's the issue here, not that they collect taxes (their job).

magduf 7y ago

What if I make my own (admittedly very crappy) art? I probably wouldn't be able to get $1 for it because it would be so bad, and it's totally unique so by definition it can't be valued by the sale of similar objects on the market (any art is just like this). So should I be forced to pay millions of dollars in taxes on it?

coldpie 7y ago
Don't be absurd. The object in question is not value-less, it is illegal to sell. It's an awkward corner case, not something to get upset about.
- close04 7y ago
  Your assumption is that the IRS's right to override appraisers comes with a fine print that says "applicable only in an awkward corner case" (in this case "items that cannot be legally sold"). I'm pretty sure if they're indeed allowed to do this and the conditions are defined as narrowly as possible (still to be decided in court I guess) then it can be easily abused. And the article doesn't suggest that such an exception exists. And that's not even discussing yet the process through which an appraisal gets bumped up by over 300% between 2 steps that were both considered to be solid enough to actually be sent out.
gamblor956 7y ago
Please use some common sense here. If you couldn't even sell it for a $1, then how are you expecting it to be valued at more than $1? The IRS valuation of art and other collectibles is based on polling independent third-parties the likely fair-market value of the art/collectible at issue. If the situation proceeds to court, then they develop a formal appraisal (or occasionally hire an independent third-party appraisal, depending on the item being examined).

longerthoughts 7y ago

>The story discussed here applies only to the extremely wealthy, and such people don't deserve any pity for having to contribute back to the society that allowed them to accumulate such wealth. Nobody here is crying for rich people having to pay taxes on assets with a value that can actually be realized - this is a question of fairness and logical consistency. At exactly what level of wealth are you arguing that the government should be able to make logically inconsistent determinations about how much you owe them? >If someone is in a situation where their property's valuation cannot be evaluated by the sale of similar objects on the market, then they are without exception able to afford to pay the taxes on it. If anything this article proves that the exact opposite is possible. If I owned "Canyon" - which I can't sell - and my remaining assets are valued lower than the tax on "Canyon" based on the initial IRS assessment, then I couldn't afford to pay the taxes on it.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]