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Not that it should not be addressed, but it is still by far the most CO2 efficient mode of transport.
by macmac 7y ago
Not that it should not be addressed, but it is still by far the most CO2 efficient mode of transport.
- 420codebro 7y agoI get the nagging feeling that the people writing such articles would be perfectly content to stop 99% of global trade in the name of "muh environment". Thank god we just ignore them as time goes on - there is no good solution, but stopping human civilization and activity definitely isn't a viable solution either.
- steve_adams_86 7y agoI think what might be worth addressing is why the ships need to transport things in the first place. We're always going to need them, but I think we need to be more selective about what we're transporting. It's just too much stuff. How we do that, I have no idea. Everyone is very entitled to their consumption habits in the west.
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoEveryone is very entitled to their consumption habits in the west. Why?
- homonculus1 7y agoI think you parent means it in the sense of "feels entitled", not necessarily that they deserve it.
- steve_adams_86 7y agoYes, that was poor wording on my part.
- makerofspoons 7y agoA carbon tax is how we do it. Calculate the carbon involved in producing the item and shipping it to you, then tax it. People will decrease their consumption of high-carbon goods.
- misterprime 7y agoMy first glimpse of how a carbon tax is in alignment with the interests of protectionist trade policy. "Make it too expensive to produce outside of our borders." Who knew?!
- charleslmunger 7y agoWell except that it's probably more carbon-expensive to move a container of widgets by truck from the East coast to California than it is to truck them from Mexico or by container ship from Asia. A carbon tax designed to fairly internalize externalities will not really please protectionists.
- rad_gruchalski 7y agoSerious question: assume that people bite the bullet and continue buying all this stuff. Thus paying the co2 tax. How is the money used?
- david-gpu 7y agoFunding carbon sequestration efforts? Depending on the magnitude of the tax we could fund a net reduction of carbon in the atmosphere.
- seattle_spring 7y agoI guess you've never been to India or China if you think they're not obsessed with consumption and consumerism right now.
- triceratops 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- misterprime 7y agoI think the issue was with: >in the west It's not just us.
- triceratops 7y agoI know what they were trying to say. It's still whataboutism. India and China have only been about consumerism for the past 15-20 years - and large parts of India are still too poor to partake in it. The developed world has been at it for much longer than that. In practically any discussion about environmentalism, climate change, plastic waste, the go-to argument for doing nothing is "What about India and China?" It gets a little frustrating to hear.
- misterprime 7y agoAre the same levels of education (along with guilt and shame) being pushed in those areas? I'm completely ignorant about that. What I have heard is that their rivers are the main source of the Pacific Garbage Patch and that the ocean will be much better off if we can collect that stuff and put it into a western landfill. It gets frustrating hearing nothing but complaints about our culture and no praise about the good policies and progress we do have.
- triceratops 7y ago> Are the same levels of education (along with guilt and shame) being pushed in those areas? There are efforts in progress[1]. Changing mindsets around littering, cleanliness of public spaces etc. takes time. Keep America Beautiful has been running campaigns and lobbying efforts against littering for 2 generations.[2] According to this article[3] they only got started so they wouldn't have to face bans on packaging - which is what we're now seeing various Indian states enforce. Mind I think both are necessary: responsible packaging and responsible consumers. > no praise about the good policies and progress we do have Here's some sincere praise, from the bottom of my heart: I'm gratified to see that the vast majority of people in the US don't litter. They've taken the lessons and messages of the anti-littering movement to heart. Long may it continue. 1. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/india-single-use-plastic-bans-maharashtra-tamil-nadu/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/india... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_America_Beautiful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_America_Beautiful 3. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/05/origins-anti-litter-campaigns/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/05/origins-anti-li...
- kpU8efre7r 7y agoThis is exactly how I feel as well. You look at a dollar store and its all Chinese junk that sat on a ship and was brought to America. Or any number of other goods that could easily be manufactured on the mainland that just gets put on a ship and sent across the sea. Can you imagine a container full of shitty meme t shirts being shipped? I often wonder if there should be a tax on distance traveled or something. It's unbearable for me to imagine.
- downrightmike 7y agoManufacture on the same continent that the things will be used on. Then they can just use rail.