5 ms·

The spirit of this is in the right direction but the details are in the implementation. I’ve seen this sort of thing backfire big time as it basically encourage

The spirit of this is in the right direction but the details are in the implementation. I’ve seen this sort of thing backfire big time as it basically encourages cliques of people that “like” each other and then shun others. If not done properly the whole company starts to feel like high school politics all over again as it loses track of what it’s actually accomplishing or not accomplishing and focuses too much on poorly implemented soft metrics. I’ve seen excellent managers that drive high performing teams get dinged by under-performers on those teams who say said manager is hard to work with. Sure they’d be much happier with a manager that let them slack off but that’s not going to help the company.

dlkf 7y ago
Nailed it. There are some very good points made in the article. Atlassian is a smart org and I suspect they're doing it well, but the article doesn't go into enough depth to let us look at it with a critical eye. There is a real danger that these policies will treat symptoms rather than causes. I think that people often take an extremely puerile view as to how exclusion and bullying manifest. I once saw an HN commenter suggest that the solution was to ban profanity. Now, obviously you shouldn't be screaming "fuck you" at your colleagues, but removing certain means won't fundamentally change behaviour if the ends remain the same. It's important to think about the incentives you've set up for your workforce. Are they playing a zero sum game? Does an assist count for as many points as a goal? > I’ve seen excellent managers get dinged in such a System because a few poor performers just mark the manager as difficult to work with to cover for their own underperformance. Which raises another question - why are these discussions always centred around "brilliant jerks" and not just, you know, "jerks" ? Is there any actual evidence that being a jerk correlates with being a good engineer? Or that brilliant jerks are harder to fire than incompetent jerks?
- ryandrake 7y ago
  Yea, most of the jerks I've worked with in the past have not been brilliant. They were just jerks. The "My company was acquired and I got a management position out of it, so nothing I say is wrong" jerk. The "I've been successful here by not collaborating, so I don't have to collaborate with you either" jerk. The "I'm to busy to even acknowledge your E-mail" jerk. And all the many, many "Taking credit for other people's work" jerks. None of them were particularly brilliant or productive. Just jerks who flourished in environments where jerky behavior was either not punished, or got you promoted.

dlkf 7y ago

Nailed it. There are some very good points made in the article. Atlassian is a smart org and I suspect they're doing it well, but the article doesn't go into enough depth to let us look at it with a critical eye. There is a real danger that these policies will treat symptoms rather than causes. I think that people often take an extremely puerile view as to how exclusion and bullying manifest. I once saw an HN commenter suggest that the solution was to ban profanity. Now, obviously you shouldn't be screaming "fuck you" at your colleagues, but removing certain means won't fundamentally change behaviour if the ends remain the same. It's important to think about the incentives you've set up for your workforce. Are they playing a zero sum game? Does an assist count for as many points as a goal? > I’ve seen excellent managers get dinged in such a System because a few poor performers just mark the manager as difficult to work with to cover for their own underperformance. Which raises another question - why are these discussions always centred around "brilliant jerks" and not just, you know, "jerks" ? Is there any actual evidence that being a jerk correlates with being a good engineer? Or that brilliant jerks are harder to fire than incompetent jerks?

ryandrake 7y ago
Yea, most of the jerks I've worked with in the past have not been brilliant. They were just jerks. The "My company was acquired and I got a management position out of it, so nothing I say is wrong" jerk. The "I've been successful here by not collaborating, so I don't have to collaborate with you either" jerk. The "I'm to busy to even acknowledge your E-mail" jerk. And all the many, many "Taking credit for other people's work" jerks. None of them were particularly brilliant or productive. Just jerks who flourished in environments where jerky behavior was either not punished, or got you promoted.