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Quite obviously the value is greater than zero. Even if you can’t sell something it can have value.

kijin 7y ago
If it doesn't make you any money but costs money to maintain, its value might even be negative.
Rychard 7y ago
Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Seeing as how it's a felony to buy it, nobody is going to offer anything for it publicly.
- evandijk70 7y ago
  There might be a way to make money from the painting without selling it. For example, are they allowed to rent it out to a museum?
  - ruste 7y ago
    Then the money earned leasing it out would be taxable, but you still can't sell it so there's still an issue with taxing its value
shitloadofbooks 7y ago
It might be a fake and be worth $0. Since the IRS are considering hypothetical black market sales, they should consider that it's hypothetically a forgery too.
scarejunba 7y ago
Yeah but this is a priori absurd. They can't sell it, they don't want it, and you tax them for getting it? Insanity.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  That seems to be a very common bureaucratic flaw - the absurd position is maintained out of interest because of their job. This is well known but the real question is how to prevent that in a reliable way that doesn't open up more problems?
  - qtplatypus 7y ago
    It is more that the absurd position is maintained because their jobs is to execute the law. If the law is absurd then you get absurd results.
DuskStar 7y ago
I can think of quite a few ways for something to be worth nothing, or less than that - for instance, would you be willing to take ownership of, and responsibility for, a lovely stretch of a former canal in the Niagara Falls area? [0] And that's ignoring synthetics, as of course debt has negative value. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal
- benj111 7y ago
  "of course debt has negative value" Does it? You are basically paid in advance, surely that should be getting taken into account. Yes I suppose debt can have a negative value if the interest rate is too high, but if you borrow money at a low interest rate to start the next google, that debt doesn't seem to have negative value to me.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    That is the loan not the debt. A loan is a combination of the real payment and debt which has utility. Without the real payment only the negative debt remains.
    - benj111 7y ago
      Yes, but they go together as a package, you can't separate it out, you have got something in return for that debt. Most (all?) assets have liabilities attached, that gold bar has warehousing and insurance costs, that diamond mine has employees that want paying. It isn't reasonable to argue that they have negative value, because you're ignoring the positive value that comes with it.
      - DuskStar 7y ago
        > Most (all?) assets have liabilities attached, The point is that not all liabilities have assets attached.
bagacrap 7y ago
Can you list some examples of things you can't sell that the IRS ought to tax?

If it doesn't make you any money but costs money to maintain, its value might even be negative.

Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Seeing as how it's a felony to buy it, nobody is going to offer anything for it publicly.

evandijk70 7y ago
There might be a way to make money from the painting without selling it. For example, are they allowed to rent it out to a museum?
- ruste 7y ago
  Then the money earned leasing it out would be taxable, but you still can't sell it so there's still an issue with taxing its value

shitloadofbooks 7y ago

It might be a fake and be worth $0. Since the IRS are considering hypothetical black market sales, they should consider that it's hypothetically a forgery too.

scarejunba 7y ago

Yeah but this is a priori absurd. They can't sell it, they don't want it, and you tax them for getting it? Insanity.

Nasrudith 7y ago
That seems to be a very common bureaucratic flaw - the absurd position is maintained out of interest because of their job. This is well known but the real question is how to prevent that in a reliable way that doesn't open up more problems?
- qtplatypus 7y ago
  It is more that the absurd position is maintained because their jobs is to execute the law. If the law is absurd then you get absurd results.

DuskStar 7y ago

I can think of quite a few ways for something to be worth nothing, or less than that - for instance, would you be willing to take ownership of, and responsibility for, a lovely stretch of a former canal in the Niagara Falls area? [0] And that's ignoring synthetics, as of course debt has negative value. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal

benj111 7y ago
"of course debt has negative value" Does it? You are basically paid in advance, surely that should be getting taken into account. Yes I suppose debt can have a negative value if the interest rate is too high, but if you borrow money at a low interest rate to start the next google, that debt doesn't seem to have negative value to me.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  That is the loan not the debt. A loan is a combination of the real payment and debt which has utility. Without the real payment only the negative debt remains.
  - benj111 7y ago
    Yes, but they go together as a package, you can't separate it out, you have got something in return for that debt. Most (all?) assets have liabilities attached, that gold bar has warehousing and insurance costs, that diamond mine has employees that want paying. It isn't reasonable to argue that they have negative value, because you're ignoring the positive value that comes with it.
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      > Most (all?) assets have liabilities attached, The point is that not all liabilities have assets attached.

bagacrap 7y ago

Can you list some examples of things you can't sell that the IRS ought to tax?