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I wish people would stop arguing that democracy and lifting millions out of poverty are mutually exclusive. They're not. Taiwan. South Korea. Japan. Though the

by __sy__ 7y ago

I wish people would stop arguing that democracy and lifting millions out of poverty are mutually exclusive. They're not. Taiwan. South Korea. Japan. Though the first 2 were fairly authoritarian in the 1950s, they all progressively marched toward democracy. CCP is taking China the other way. Meanwhile India, which is the CCP's favorite parrot for justifying their means, actually has lifted out of abject poverty just about as many people as the CCP.

gdy 7y ago
That is a straw man. The point is that democracy doesn't automatically mean economic growth and the best example falls short of China's success. In case of China, CCP's policies worked spectacularly well and you need a reason that outweighs economic growth to wish for its demise. "just about as many" The second link specifically says that it is not so.
- __sy__ 7y ago
  Sorry, you are correct; what I had in mind and should have written was more along the lines of "within the same order of magnitude." I'm guessing/hoping India will be caught up by 2035-2040. Anyways, I'm not denying that there are benefits to top-down, non-democratic planning in the early stages of economic development. Again Taiwan, and its use of eminent domain in the 1970s, 80s. But I don't think long-term it leads to the most stable & innovative society. Last but not least, I don't agree with your assertion that the "best democratic examples have fallen short of China's success." How are we measuring that? GPD per capita? Life expectancy? General happiness? Anecdotally, I've spent enough time in the PRC these past few years to tell you that on what I'd consider all the relevant dimensions, Taiwan, Japan, or South Korea respectively just crush the average quality of life & wealth levels you get in China's Tier 1 cities today.
  - gdy 7y ago
    "I don't agree with your assertion" I meant the reduction of extreme poverty in China vs. India.

by __sy__ 7y ago

gdy 7y ago

That is a straw man. The point is that democracy doesn't automatically mean economic growth and the best example falls short of China's success. In case of China, CCP's policies worked spectacularly well and you need a reason that outweighs economic growth to wish for its demise. "just about as many" The second link specifically says that it is not so.

__sy__ 7y ago
Sorry, you are correct; what I had in mind and should have written was more along the lines of "within the same order of magnitude." I'm guessing/hoping India will be caught up by 2035-2040. Anyways, I'm not denying that there are benefits to top-down, non-democratic planning in the early stages of economic development. Again Taiwan, and its use of eminent domain in the 1970s, 80s. But I don't think long-term it leads to the most stable & innovative society. Last but not least, I don't agree with your assertion that the "best democratic examples have fallen short of China's success." How are we measuring that? GPD per capita? Life expectancy? General happiness? Anecdotally, I've spent enough time in the PRC these past few years to tell you that on what I'd consider all the relevant dimensions, Taiwan, Japan, or South Korea respectively just crush the average quality of life & wealth levels you get in China's Tier 1 cities today.
- gdy 7y ago
  "I don't agree with your assertion" I meant the reduction of extreme poverty in China vs. India.