4 ms·

If I could short wework I would. Softbank is basically setting its own valuations because of the amounts it has to invest. Wework has a ton of red flag. Soft

If I could short wework I would. Softbank is basically setting its own valuations because of the amounts it has to invest. Wework has a ton of red flag. Softbank is a major wework investor. Could I short softbank?

frenchman99 7y ago
Isn't Softbank way to diversified to make any shorting strategy close to impossible ?
- eigenvalue 7y ago
  Yes, Softbank has total balance sheet assets of approximately $335b, and their total investment in WeWork is ~$6b. But even that overstates it because a big portion of that investment was made via the Vision fund (i.e., other peoples' money).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
opportune 7y ago
You theoretically could enter a short position on wework by creating a custom contract with a shareholder or option-holder
vkou 7y ago
Whatever Softbank burns on this investment may be lost in the noise of the rest of their business.
harryh 7y ago
I'll sell you WeWork shorts at a 40 billion valuation. We'll resolve the short 30 days after the IPO. How much would you like?
- bravura 7y ago
  Curious. Is this a legal trade?
  - harryh 7y ago
    Strictly speaking, probably not. But I don't think the SEC reads Hacker News.
    - wp381640 7y ago
      You might want to structure it as a bet just incase
  - fierro 7y ago
    might as well just bet on the price of the stock instead of make actual share transactions
- repsilat 7y ago
  A per-share valuation would be more appropriate, I think. Otherwise someone shorting could lose even if WeWork raised a down round.
  - harryh 7y ago
    I'm fairly flexible about any reasonable proposals privateSFacct would like to make.
    - repsilat 7y ago
      Good on you.
- smallgovt 7y ago
  40 billion? Their last valuation was 47b and they will very likely price their IPO higher than that. Let me know if you want to sell shorts at the same price WeWork prices their IPO at.
jpalomaki 7y ago
Even if you are right and market is wrong, market can keep its view longer than you can afford to keep yours. (There was a smart quote saying the same, can’t find it)
- bhouston 7y ago
  The market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
- harryh 7y ago
  "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." -John Maynard Keynes Though there is some evidence that the quite (like many) is apocryphal. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- xibalba 7y ago
  Often attributed to Keynes, but appears to be an original quote from A. Gary Shilling: "...the stock market can remain irrational a lot longer than you can remain solvent."
icelancer 7y ago
You absolutely can find a private arrangement for a short position if you hold sufficient funds. This kind of thing is incredibly common.

frenchman99 7y ago

Isn't Softbank way to diversified to make any shorting strategy close to impossible ?

eigenvalue 7y ago
Yes, Softbank has total balance sheet assets of approximately $335b, and their total investment in WeWork is ~$6b. But even that overstates it because a big portion of that investment was made via the Vision fund (i.e., other peoples' money).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

opportune 7y ago

You theoretically could enter a short position on wework by creating a custom contract with a shareholder or option-holder

vkou 7y ago

Whatever Softbank burns on this investment may be lost in the noise of the rest of their business.

harryh 7y ago

I'll sell you WeWork shorts at a 40 billion valuation. We'll resolve the short 30 days after the IPO. How much would you like?

bravura 7y ago
Curious. Is this a legal trade?
- harryh 7y ago
  Strictly speaking, probably not. But I don't think the SEC reads Hacker News.
  - wp381640 7y ago
    You might want to structure it as a bet just incase
- fierro 7y ago
  might as well just bet on the price of the stock instead of make actual share transactions
repsilat 7y ago
A per-share valuation would be more appropriate, I think. Otherwise someone shorting could lose even if WeWork raised a down round.
- harryh 7y ago
  I'm fairly flexible about any reasonable proposals privateSFacct would like to make.
  - repsilat 7y ago
    Good on you.
smallgovt 7y ago
40 billion? Their last valuation was 47b and they will very likely price their IPO higher than that. Let me know if you want to sell shorts at the same price WeWork prices their IPO at.

jpalomaki 7y ago

Even if you are right and market is wrong, market can keep its view longer than you can afford to keep yours. (There was a smart quote saying the same, can’t find it)

bhouston 7y ago
The market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
harryh 7y ago
"Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." -John Maynard Keynes Though there is some evidence that the quite (like many) is apocryphal. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/09/remain-solvent/
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
xibalba 7y ago
Often attributed to Keynes, but appears to be an original quote from A. Gary Shilling: "...the stock market can remain irrational a lot longer than you can remain solvent."

icelancer 7y ago

You absolutely can find a private arrangement for a short position if you hold sufficient funds. This kind of thing is incredibly common.