4 ms·

Get the fuck out of coding. Get an MBA and if you must remain in tech rather than doing productive work: become a product manager. Preferably not in the US. Be

Get the fuck out of coding. Get an MBA and if you must remain in tech rather than doing productive work: become a product manager. Preferably not in the US. Being a coder means being a commodity; you're competing with people in countries where the GDP per capita is less than $2k. Unless you can quote chapter and verse from Knuth, and since you're mentioning Javascript, you probably can't, you're human chum to be exploited by oligarchs. Find something better to do, even if it's bullshit.

hereisdx 7y ago
:(
kabdib 7y ago
This is terrible advice.
- scottlocklin 7y ago
  No, it's absolutely realistic advice. It's a shitty profession unless you're insanely great at a speciality. Telling kids some nonsense about study X, Y Z is bad advice and cruelty to animals. We really don't need to breed a new generation of code monkey slaves. You're better off studying watchmaking or leather working if you want a craftsman like profession involving science and engineering. Otherwise: be the boss.
  - Grimm1 7y ago
    You're seriously delusional. I've had largely great experiences as a developer and its largely a passion for me still. Sorry it wasnt a free meal ticket for you.
    - Grimm1 7y ago
      Oh and by and large I'm a generalist.
      - scottlocklin 7y ago
        I did fine; mostly at prediction. Anyone who can't see the writing on the wall is fooling themselves, and telling young people otherwise (aka just study X as a generic javascript dude who studied in collitch) is a terrible, terrible thing. Schools who sell sugar plum fairies should stake their students success. Are you willing to give this kid advice that you're on the financial hook for for the next 40 years?
        kabdib 7y ago
        I think there's a recipe for becoming one of the dreaded "code monkeys": - "Hey, I could make a bunch of easy money writing code!" So, off to school for a degree, not bothering to learn anything other than VM-based languages and web development. - Get a job and never crack open a book (or read a paper) on software again. - Only learn new stuff as it pertains to your immediate work. I see this time after time in the resumes that I encounter. I think the half-life of a software career that follows this pattern is about 15 years and that's probably being generous. These people will spend most of their time either being taught the ropes as an industry newcomer (which is fine) or being told what to do by others (because they didn't keep their skills up). Their agency never really develops because their skills stagnate relative to the people who do get with a program. I don't mean that someone should work all day then go home and commit like crazy on personal projects, that's also terrible advice. But it's not hard. For instance, if they spend an hour a week reading a conference paper then that's 50 papers a year and they're probably learning new things (or are at least aware of what they don't know); spread the subject matter around and after a few years of this they'll be in conversations like "Hmmm, this feature we want looks a lot like that consensus thingy I read about a few months ago, and they solved it by..." "Wow, how'd you know about all that stuff?" Reading a couple papers, maybe an hour or two a week, why? The G-G-GP is terrible advice because someone who is even a little motivated and who exercises above-average career upkeep can do really, really well and have a long tenure writing software. People will want to work with them, even. Managers will ask their advice on a regular basis! Advising people who are technically inclined that getting an MBA is unconditionally better is just, well, wrong. I could be more forceful. tl;dr; if you treat your software career like an actual career (and not some kind of easy con on the world that will continue to pay off for decades) then you'll probably get good results.
mjirv 7y ago
Ironically this is the exact opposite advice I would give, as someone 3 years out of undergrad with lots of SWE and non-SWE (PM, consultant, banker) friends. If a college student told me "I want to optimize for a career where I don't feel like a commodity, have lots of bargaining power (high wages, short hours, easy to switch jobs), and can easily start a business or consult on my own if I desire," I'd tell them: study computer science. SWEs I know at the big tech companies are being paid the same as my banker friends for half the hours (or less). The consultants and PMs are working longer hours for half the money and way less job security. By definition if you're selling your labor on the job market you're being a commodity. I can't predict the future, but for now at least being a SWE seems the best way for a recent graduate to win some bargaining power back.

hereisdx 7y ago

kabdib 7y ago

This is terrible advice.

scottlocklin 7y ago
No, it's absolutely realistic advice. It's a shitty profession unless you're insanely great at a speciality. Telling kids some nonsense about study X, Y Z is bad advice and cruelty to animals. We really don't need to breed a new generation of code monkey slaves. You're better off studying watchmaking or leather working if you want a craftsman like profession involving science and engineering. Otherwise: be the boss.
- Grimm1 7y ago
  You're seriously delusional. I've had largely great experiences as a developer and its largely a passion for me still. Sorry it wasnt a free meal ticket for you.
  - Grimm1 7y ago
    Oh and by and large I'm a generalist.
    - scottlocklin 7y ago
      I did fine; mostly at prediction. Anyone who can't see the writing on the wall is fooling themselves, and telling young people otherwise (aka just study X as a generic javascript dude who studied in collitch) is a terrible, terrible thing. Schools who sell sugar plum fairies should stake their students success. Are you willing to give this kid advice that you're on the financial hook for for the next 40 years?
      - kabdib 7y ago
        I think there's a recipe for becoming one of the dreaded "code monkeys": - "Hey, I could make a bunch of easy money writing code!" So, off to school for a degree, not bothering to learn anything other than VM-based languages and web development. - Get a job and never crack open a book (or read a paper) on software again. - Only learn new stuff as it pertains to your immediate work. I see this time after time in the resumes that I encounter. I think the half-life of a software career that follows this pattern is about 15 years and that's probably being generous. These people will spend most of their time either being taught the ropes as an industry newcomer (which is fine) or being told what to do by others (because they didn't keep their skills up). Their agency never really develops because their skills stagnate relative to the people who do get with a program. I don't mean that someone should work all day then go home and commit like crazy on personal projects, that's also terrible advice. But it's not hard. For instance, if they spend an hour a week reading a conference paper then that's 50 papers a year and they're probably learning new things (or are at least aware of what they don't know); spread the subject matter around and after a few years of this they'll be in conversations like "Hmmm, this feature we want looks a lot like that consensus thingy I read about a few months ago, and they solved it by..." "Wow, how'd you know about all that stuff?" Reading a couple papers, maybe an hour or two a week, why? The G-G-GP is terrible advice because someone who is even a little motivated and who exercises above-average career upkeep can do really, really well and have a long tenure writing software. People will want to work with them, even. Managers will ask their advice on a regular basis! Advising people who are technically inclined that getting an MBA is unconditionally better is just, well, wrong. I could be more forceful. tl;dr; if you treat your software career like an actual career (and not some kind of easy con on the world that will continue to pay off for decades) then you'll probably get good results.

mjirv 7y ago

Ironically this is the exact opposite advice I would give, as someone 3 years out of undergrad with lots of SWE and non-SWE (PM, consultant, banker) friends. If a college student told me "I want to optimize for a career where I don't feel like a commodity, have lots of bargaining power (high wages, short hours, easy to switch jobs), and can easily start a business or consult on my own if I desire," I'd tell them: study computer science. SWEs I know at the big tech companies are being paid the same as my banker friends for half the hours (or less). The consultants and PMs are working longer hours for half the money and way less job security. By definition if you're selling your labor on the job market you're being a commodity. I can't predict the future, but for now at least being a SWE seems the best way for a recent graduate to win some bargaining power back.