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> At one point, I believe it was over 74 million and after a Google search change, that number went down to less than 12 million overnight, so all the backlinks

> At one point, I believe it was over 74 million and after a Google search change, that number went down to less than 12 million overnight, so all the backlinks, all the websites that were linking to my site, that boosted my rank, that gave my site a good search cloud. This was all organic. I did not use tricks or anything deceptive. This was all organic traffic. These were all organic backlinks and all of a sudden Google just decided I’m turning it off and they did. So guess what happened? My search traffic completely plummeted. > I would get called on a regular basis from Google ad execs begging me to put Google ads on my website. > Like you basically have to give them their cut, otherwise they’re not gonna let you play and they’re going to screw with your search traffic. Yeah, no, it doesn't work like that. Google search ranking is not perfect, but they have taken search/ad separation very, very, very seriously. You can't even ask questions like "The google ad customer I'm talking to disappeared from search results, did you guys do anything overnight?" It's a big no-no. It sounds more like a sadly misinformed rant. 90% of startups fail - failure is a natural result. You don't need to bring up a Google conspiracy to explain it.

microdrum 7y ago
It’s not a big no-no. There is no Chinese wall. I’ve had AdX reps forward me messages from search quality. It’s all a lie. They want their cut. They’re trying to own the internet. They will be broken up.
blueboo 7y ago
Best practices are being followed now; but a large sales team at its worst more than ten years ago might be caught out in bad behavior. Less plausible is the scenario of failing as a result of ad-pay for search-play. If the equation is proven out, then he, a rational and effective founder, would’ve paid!—And his site would’ve played another day. Or are we supposed to read an implication that it was worth burning the company to the ground to take a principled stand against 2008 Google? Meanwhile, the traffic claims defy belief. Livevideo failed to launch.
- yongjik 7y ago
  Well, I wouldn't be surprised if, once in a while, an unscrupulous sales rep hinted that they can get their customers favorable search positions after buying ads. But I would be really surprised if anyone could follow through with their promises.
  - the-rc 7y ago
    Most sales people at Google wouldn't even know where to start looking. They're more familiar with the ad systems. Heck, a lot of engineers couldn't tell you on the spot where to look or whom to inquire about ranking bugs. Add to that the big gulf between sales and engineering, not to mention the sometimes snobbish attitude of the latter toward the former. (”Sales people take our money and blow it on dinners with clients!", forgetting that the money often came in thanks to sales and that e.g. engineers on average traveled less often, but for quite longer).
- mysticlabs 7y ago
  The launch of LiveVideo was not the issue. We had more traffic than we knew what to do with, and way more than YouTube at the time. Honestly, things didn't go sideways until Google decided to mess with LiveVideo and the rest of our web properties in search results. Had Google never purchased YouTube, LiveVideo would have probably won that battle hands down. Without Google money, YouTube would have failed, not LiveVideo.
Reedx 7y ago
Yeah, that sounds just like the conspiracy that Yelp shakes down restaurants if they don't pay. Yet still waiting to see actual proof of this.
- celsoazevedo 7y ago
  It happened to this guy: https://youtu.be/C67Lh4LE5LY https://youtu.be/C67Lh4LE5LY And apparently she ended up being fired by Yelp.
- onemoresoop 7y ago
  It happened to a friend of mine last year. He has a small business, a family business and got harassed with dozens of calls to buy a Yelp package of around $1000 a month (which doesn't guarantee more sales, they just push ads, etc and maybe fake reviews). He told them he cannot afford that and not to be called anymore. Few days later two guys in suits showed up to at the business to try to convince him to sign up for the offer. He declined. The aftermath: his rating on their site dropped a few stars, good reviews are pending forever and a few bad ones skim to the top. This is a bad business model!

microdrum 7y ago

It’s not a big no-no. There is no Chinese wall. I’ve had AdX reps forward me messages from search quality. It’s all a lie. They want their cut. They’re trying to own the internet. They will be broken up.

blueboo 7y ago

Best practices are being followed now; but a large sales team at its worst more than ten years ago might be caught out in bad behavior. Less plausible is the scenario of failing as a result of ad-pay for search-play. If the equation is proven out, then he, a rational and effective founder, would’ve paid!—And his site would’ve played another day. Or are we supposed to read an implication that it was worth burning the company to the ground to take a principled stand against 2008 Google? Meanwhile, the traffic claims defy belief. Livevideo failed to launch.

yongjik 7y ago
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if, once in a while, an unscrupulous sales rep hinted that they can get their customers favorable search positions after buying ads. But I would be really surprised if anyone could follow through with their promises.
- the-rc 7y ago
  Most sales people at Google wouldn't even know where to start looking. They're more familiar with the ad systems. Heck, a lot of engineers couldn't tell you on the spot where to look or whom to inquire about ranking bugs. Add to that the big gulf between sales and engineering, not to mention the sometimes snobbish attitude of the latter toward the former. (”Sales people take our money and blow it on dinners with clients!", forgetting that the money often came in thanks to sales and that e.g. engineers on average traveled less often, but for quite longer).
mysticlabs 7y ago
The launch of LiveVideo was not the issue. We had more traffic than we knew what to do with, and way more than YouTube at the time. Honestly, things didn't go sideways until Google decided to mess with LiveVideo and the rest of our web properties in search results. Had Google never purchased YouTube, LiveVideo would have probably won that battle hands down. Without Google money, YouTube would have failed, not LiveVideo.

Reedx 7y ago

Yeah, that sounds just like the conspiracy that Yelp shakes down restaurants if they don't pay. Yet still waiting to see actual proof of this.

celsoazevedo 7y ago
It happened to this guy: https://youtu.be/C67Lh4LE5LY https://youtu.be/C67Lh4LE5LY And apparently she ended up being fired by Yelp.
onemoresoop 7y ago
It happened to a friend of mine last year. He has a small business, a family business and got harassed with dozens of calls to buy a Yelp package of around $1000 a month (which doesn't guarantee more sales, they just push ads, etc and maybe fake reviews). He told them he cannot afford that and not to be called anymore. Few days later two guys in suits showed up to at the business to try to convince him to sign up for the offer. He declined. The aftermath: his rating on their site dropped a few stars, good reviews are pending forever and a few bad ones skim to the top. This is a bad business model!