6 ms·

When was Grindr ever for queer people in any way? Gay people, yes. But us queers?

by throwanem 7y ago

gurumeditations 7y ago
Gay people are queer. Queer means everyone who is not straight.
- throwanem 7y ago
  No, it doesn't. https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/difference-between-gay-queer/ https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/difference-between-gay-...
  - TallGuyShort 7y ago
    Even that article lists that definition as an "understandable" one and then explicitly phrases the subsequent commentary as the author's "interpretation". It seems like you're looking for a reason to be a victim of the wording used in the article.
    - throwanem 7y ago
      It seems like you’re looking for reasons to ignore the possibility that there’s a useful distinction to be made between the two terms. That seems like a more interesting discussion to have than any involving ad hominem such as “you’re looking for a reason to be a victim”.
      - TallGuyShort 7y ago
        Your own citation doesn't support your own argument
        throwanem 7y ago
        That interpretations are of significance suffices to imply that no prescriptive definition is universally acknowledged to exist.
        TallGuyShort 7y ago
        So you commented on an article disputing the use of a term with no universally acknowledged definition and when someone disagreed with you you posted an article that includes THEIR definition as a decent example. Bravo. You're kind of proving my point here.
    - dang 7y ago
      > It seems like you're looking for a reason to be a victim That crosses into personal attack. Please don't do that in arguments here, regardless of how wrong someone is or it feels they are. And could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN generally? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20473318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20473318 is an example. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Raphmedia 7y ago
  On paper maybe but only a fraction of the gay population identifies as queer. Visit any gay bar and ask around. You'll quickly see that not everyone identifies to that label. If Queer was a fully synonymous with gay, the acronym wouldn't be "LGBTQ+" but simply "LGBT+".
  - gurumeditations 7y ago
    For classification purposes, queer is accurate. It’s so we can avoid a thousand-letter acronym.
    - vsef 7y ago
      There are two different usages here: queer as umbrella term inclusive of LGBT etc, and queer as a specific identity. The usage as identity of its own is intentionally ambiguous/expansive but frequently implies some form of gender fluidity. The term can also ambiguously imply a particular political stance with regard to the role of gender in society, or more strongly a particular leftist philosophy. I am gay man, I do not identify as queer, I think that is pretty common. I'm fine mostly with the umbrella term, but also don't identify with enough parts of that politics that I wouldn't use the term myself ever. The original commenter is right that the apps don't necessarily seem welcoming to the specifically queer identified.
jayd16 7y ago
The article is about Grindr's failure to do so, despite some internal desires.
Kye 7y ago
Maybe it's because I do most of my socializing among furries, a diverse and primarily queer crowd[1], but I had never heard anyone suggest queer didn't include gay people until your comment. Where did you hear that? [1] https://vis.adjectivespecies.com/furrysurvey/overview/ https://vis.adjectivespecies.com/furrysurvey/overview/
- throwanem 7y ago
  Among a crowd that includes a lot of furries, actually! "Queer" as an identification has lately been picked up (revived and reclaimed, really) as, among other things, a way of opting out of a lot of the assimilationist and gym-clone tropes that've taken over so much of what it means to be "gay". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer has a reasonable overview, to which I'd add only that it's also a good term of identification for men who love men, but who find "gay" to be so rigid and prescriptive in its meaning that it fails to accurately describe us.
  - Kye 7y ago
    >> "Among a crowd that includes a lot of furries, actually!" That's practically implied on a tech industry forum! But I think I see your point.

When was Grindr ever for queer people in any way? Gay people, yes. But us queers?

gurumeditations 7y ago

Gay people are queer. Queer means everyone who is not straight.

throwanem 7y ago
No, it doesn't. https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/difference-between-gay-queer/ https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/03/difference-between-gay-...
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  Even that article lists that definition as an "understandable" one and then explicitly phrases the subsequent commentary as the author's "interpretation". It seems like you're looking for a reason to be a victim of the wording used in the article.
  - throwanem 7y ago
    It seems like you’re looking for reasons to ignore the possibility that there’s a useful distinction to be made between the two terms. That seems like a more interesting discussion to have than any involving ad hominem such as “you’re looking for a reason to be a victim”.
    - TallGuyShort 7y ago
      Your own citation doesn't support your own argument
      - throwanem 7y ago
        That interpretations are of significance suffices to imply that no prescriptive definition is universally acknowledged to exist.
        TallGuyShort 7y ago
        So you commented on an article disputing the use of a term with no universally acknowledged definition and when someone disagreed with you you posted an article that includes THEIR definition as a decent example. Bravo. You're kind of proving my point here.
  - dang 7y ago
    > It seems like you're looking for a reason to be a victim That crosses into personal attack. Please don't do that in arguments here, regardless of how wrong someone is or it feels they are. And could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN generally? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20473318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20473318 is an example. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Raphmedia 7y ago
On paper maybe but only a fraction of the gay population identifies as queer. Visit any gay bar and ask around. You'll quickly see that not everyone identifies to that label. If Queer was a fully synonymous with gay, the acronym wouldn't be "LGBTQ+" but simply "LGBT+".
- gurumeditations 7y ago
  For classification purposes, queer is accurate. It’s so we can avoid a thousand-letter acronym.
  - vsef 7y ago
    There are two different usages here: queer as umbrella term inclusive of LGBT etc, and queer as a specific identity. The usage as identity of its own is intentionally ambiguous/expansive but frequently implies some form of gender fluidity. The term can also ambiguously imply a particular political stance with regard to the role of gender in society, or more strongly a particular leftist philosophy. I am gay man, I do not identify as queer, I think that is pretty common. I'm fine mostly with the umbrella term, but also don't identify with enough parts of that politics that I wouldn't use the term myself ever. The original commenter is right that the apps don't necessarily seem welcoming to the specifically queer identified.

jayd16 7y ago

The article is about Grindr's failure to do so, despite some internal desires.

Kye 7y ago

Maybe it's because I do most of my socializing among furries, a diverse and primarily queer crowd[1], but I had never heard anyone suggest queer didn't include gay people until your comment. Where did you hear that? [1] https://vis.adjectivespecies.com/furrysurvey/overview/ https://vis.adjectivespecies.com/furrysurvey/overview/

throwanem 7y ago
Among a crowd that includes a lot of furries, actually! "Queer" as an identification has lately been picked up (revived and reclaimed, really) as, among other things, a way of opting out of a lot of the assimilationist and gym-clone tropes that've taken over so much of what it means to be "gay". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer has a reasonable overview, to which I'd add only that it's also a good term of identification for men who love men, but who find "gay" to be so rigid and prescriptive in its meaning that it fails to accurately describe us.
- Kye 7y ago
  >> "Among a crowd that includes a lot of furries, actually!" That's practically implied on a tech industry forum! But I think I see your point.