4 ms·

I am going to get flack for this but I believe both health and wealth are both highly correlated with personal will power. For instance, intermittent fasting fo

I am going to get flack for this but I believe both health and wealth are both highly correlated with personal will power. For instance, intermittent fasting for me has been the best thing I've done for my health and I really have no trouble doing it, but I do believe it takes significant will power.

burkaman 7y ago
"no trouble doing it" is the opposite of "significant will power".
jahewson 7y ago
If you look at the research then habit formation is all about not relying on willpower. Willpower is a limited resource and is easily drained. People do not form long-term behaviours by willpower alone. Yes, you need some willpower to start doing something new - but it’s all about habit formation after that. https://angeladuckworth.com/publications/ https://angeladuckworth.com/publications/
- ulucs 7y ago
  > Willpower is a limited resource and is easily drained That study unfortunately failed to replicate https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/scicurious/willpower-ego-depletion-social-psychology-replication https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/scicurious/willpower-ego-de...
  - jahewson 7y ago
    Not the study I’m talking about.
learc83 7y ago
There is a correlation but the direction of causation isn't always the direction you would think. Take the famous delayed gratification study where kids were given 2 treats if they didn't eat the 1 that was placed in front of them. More recent studies have indicated that eating the treat immediately may be a developed response to deprivation. And that wealthier kids were more likely to delay gratification--possibly because their experience taught them to believe the adult when they said there would be to 2 treats available later. According to the new results, the will power displayed in the delayed gratification tests was a result of wealth not a cause of wealth.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
sdwa 7y ago
I think you're missing the point. The point is return per unit will power is massively correlated with your socioeconomic background—poor and disadvantaged people have to use a lot more will power to get the same benefits that rich people born into privilege do. What's more, people have a finite supply of will power, people who desperately struggle to make ends meet may have little will left over at the end of the day to eat a balanced dinner, or go for a run, to put it simply.
happytoexplain 7y ago
The word "willpower" is a near-useless metric in a vacuum. It's not the same as physical strength, where its measurement, attainment, and abilities are all pretty straightforward. The mental portion of one's ability to do hard things is a complex function of a ton of variables, both environmental and intrinsic. The portion that is under our control is just one of those variables - though it is certainly a critical portion, and people should absolutely be encouraged to be proactive and try to go above and beyond what they feel like that portion makes them capable of. But to boil it down to "health and wealth are both highly correlated with personal will power... I really have no trouble doing it" is kind of short on substance.
inscionent 7y ago
Are you also incredibly wealthy?
komali2 7y ago
Try intermittent fasting while waking up at 5am, feeding 3 kids whatever you got with your EBT, swinging a hammer for 12 hours (if you're lucky and got that many hours of work), then sitting in a security booth for another 4... and rinse and repeat.
cosmie 7y ago
I naturally fall into a loose form of intermittent fasting - I've never been a breakfast person, and I tend to forget to stop for lunch. Most days, I don't usually think about food at all until around 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and eat around 6pm. It takes zero will power at all, and if I get hungry earlier (or want to go out with coworkers for lunch or get hungry again later in the evening), I'll still eat. I just usually don't, and tend to stay in an intermittent fasting state >80% of the time. It also acts as a natural counterweight to my generally poor eating choice, which would not be sustainable if I ate more frequently. But it takes a _massive_ amount of willpower for me to be active. I frequently switch between highly technical work to executive-level engagement to client management and business development work, all within the same day, and it leaves me completely mentally exhausted at the end of it. In fact, I _don't_ have the willpower to force myself to be active most of the time. But I have a few friends that I am eternally grateful for, who are like energizer bunnies and always going, understand that aspect of me, and share their willpower with me when needed. They're able to tell when it's time to ignore my declining their invites and to show up anyway and drag me out to a hike or swim or something. And I feel great once we get going. Understanding your personal will power is critical, but what you do with that understanding is even more so. I've leaned into where mine is at, and have developed support structures in my life to compensate for where mine isn't. But my success in doing so has been predicated on understanding and adapting to my willpower, not on the strength of it nor fighting against it. It's really hard to generalize the shape that takes or to project out the difficulty of something to someone else, since they'll likely have completely different strengths and weaknesses in that regard.

burkaman 7y ago

"no trouble doing it" is the opposite of "significant will power".

jahewson 7y ago

If you look at the research then habit formation is all about not relying on willpower. Willpower is a limited resource and is easily drained. People do not form long-term behaviours by willpower alone. Yes, you need some willpower to start doing something new - but it’s all about habit formation after that. https://angeladuckworth.com/publications/ https://angeladuckworth.com/publications/

ulucs 7y ago
> Willpower is a limited resource and is easily drained That study unfortunately failed to replicate https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/scicurious/willpower-ego-depletion-social-psychology-replication https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/scicurious/willpower-ego-de...
- jahewson 7y ago
  Not the study I’m talking about.

learc83 7y ago

There is a correlation but the direction of causation isn't always the direction you would think. Take the famous delayed gratification study where kids were given 2 treats if they didn't eat the 1 that was placed in front of them. More recent studies have indicated that eating the treat immediately may be a developed response to deprivation. And that wealthier kids were more likely to delay gratification--possibly because their experience taught them to believe the adult when they said there would be to 2 treats available later. According to the new results, the will power displayed in the delayed gratification tests was a result of wealth not a cause of wealth.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

sdwa 7y ago

I think you're missing the point. The point is return per unit will power is massively correlated with your socioeconomic background—poor and disadvantaged people have to use a lot more will power to get the same benefits that rich people born into privilege do. What's more, people have a finite supply of will power, people who desperately struggle to make ends meet may have little will left over at the end of the day to eat a balanced dinner, or go for a run, to put it simply.

happytoexplain 7y ago

The word "willpower" is a near-useless metric in a vacuum. It's not the same as physical strength, where its measurement, attainment, and abilities are all pretty straightforward. The mental portion of one's ability to do hard things is a complex function of a ton of variables, both environmental and intrinsic. The portion that is under our control is just one of those variables - though it is certainly a critical portion, and people should absolutely be encouraged to be proactive and try to go above and beyond what they feel like that portion makes them capable of. But to boil it down to "health and wealth are both highly correlated with personal will power... I really have no trouble doing it" is kind of short on substance.

inscionent 7y ago

Are you also incredibly wealthy?

komali2 7y ago

Try intermittent fasting while waking up at 5am, feeding 3 kids whatever you got with your EBT, swinging a hammer for 12 hours (if you're lucky and got that many hours of work), then sitting in a security booth for another 4... and rinse and repeat.

cosmie 7y ago

I naturally fall into a loose form of intermittent fasting - I've never been a breakfast person, and I tend to forget to stop for lunch. Most days, I don't usually think about food at all until around 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and eat around 6pm. It takes zero will power at all, and if I get hungry earlier (or want to go out with coworkers for lunch or get hungry again later in the evening), I'll still eat. I just usually don't, and tend to stay in an intermittent fasting state >80% of the time. It also acts as a natural counterweight to my generally poor eating choice, which would not be sustainable if I ate more frequently. But it takes a _massive_ amount of willpower for me to be active. I frequently switch between highly technical work to executive-level engagement to client management and business development work, all within the same day, and it leaves me completely mentally exhausted at the end of it. In fact, I _don't_ have the willpower to force myself to be active most of the time. But I have a few friends that I am eternally grateful for, who are like energizer bunnies and always going, understand that aspect of me, and share their willpower with me when needed. They're able to tell when it's time to ignore my declining their invites and to show up anyway and drag me out to a hike or swim or something. And I feel great once we get going. Understanding your personal will power is critical, but what you do with that understanding is even more so. I've leaned into where mine is at, and have developed support structures in my life to compensate for where mine isn't. But my success in doing so has been predicated on understanding and adapting to my willpower, not on the strength of it nor fighting against it. It's really hard to generalize the shape that takes or to project out the difficulty of something to someone else, since they'll likely have completely different strengths and weaknesses in that regard.