3 ms·

Isn't it also reasonable to think that people consider the information they take in? Testability is key to most strong beliefs and I like to think that the majo

Isn't it also reasonable to think that people consider the information they take in? Testability is key to most strong beliefs and I like to think that the majority of the population is not so firmly rooted that they refuse to update their views based on evidence to the contrary. Sure, a few crazy people may choose to believe that Jews eat the blood of children, but I hope that in a free society where information to the contrary is readily available it will not impact a significant enough portion of the population to cause the sorts of genocides you're suggesting.

tombert 7y ago
This is measurably false. Climate change denial is a pretty obvious example that hurts everyone. The facts are available, relatively easy to find, but people still tow their party lines about it being a "hoax from China", or some such nonsense.
- buildzr 7y ago
  Is it measurably false? I seem to remember seeing statistics that showed those convinced it very much is happening were over 50% and rising of even the US population while those who were convinced it was NOT were under 7% and dropping. I would suggest that this is in fact an example to the contrary. Do you have any evidence to suggest that these beliefs are so widespread as to influence a majority of the population and require intervention for a properly functioning democracy as the parent was suggesting?
  - tombert 7y ago
    Well, first off, you don't need a "majority" for it to cause damage. The Nazis didn't have more than 30% of the vote, but they caused damage. Currently in the US, we have a president who has said, multiple times, that climate change was a hoax made up by China to make us weaker in manufacturing [1], and has dismantled the EPA to make sure they explicitly don't do anything about climate change [2]. Second, I'm going to need some sources for your stats. It looks like in the Gallup polls, we still have roughly 69% of Republicans who claim that climate change is greatly exaggerated [3], with only 35% of Republicans who think humans are the cause of it, and only 18% or Republicans that think it will cause any problems in their lifetime. [1] https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/03/hillary-clinton/yes-donald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun... [2] https://mashable.com/2017/02/03/trump-epa-climate-website-changes/ https://mashable.com/2017/02/03/trump-epa-climate-website-ch... [3] https://news.gallup.com/poll/231530/global-warming-concern-steady-despite-partisan-shifts.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/231530/global-warming-concern-s...
    - buildzr 7y ago
      While there may be truth there, those numbers don't take into account the strength of those beliefs, also note that if I'm not mistaken, it's not counting independents who may vote republican, so the pool is actually much smaller in terms of overall Americans. I think this was the study I'd seen if you're interested: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/americans-who-accept-climate-change-outnumber-those-who-dont-5-to-1 https://e360.yale.edu/digest/americans-who-accept-climate-ch...
pjc50 7y ago
> Isn't it also reasonable to think that people consider the information they take in? We started this conversation talking about people who believe the earth is flat.
- buildzr 7y ago
  Yes and the number of people who believe in something like that is actually rather small. That's kind of my point. These things get treated as way more serious than they are given actual belief rates.

tombert 7y ago

This is measurably false. Climate change denial is a pretty obvious example that hurts everyone. The facts are available, relatively easy to find, but people still tow their party lines about it being a "hoax from China", or some such nonsense.

buildzr 7y ago
Is it measurably false? I seem to remember seeing statistics that showed those convinced it very much is happening were over 50% and rising of even the US population while those who were convinced it was NOT were under 7% and dropping. I would suggest that this is in fact an example to the contrary. Do you have any evidence to suggest that these beliefs are so widespread as to influence a majority of the population and require intervention for a properly functioning democracy as the parent was suggesting?
- tombert 7y ago
  Well, first off, you don't need a "majority" for it to cause damage. The Nazis didn't have more than 30% of the vote, but they caused damage. Currently in the US, we have a president who has said, multiple times, that climate change was a hoax made up by China to make us weaker in manufacturing [1], and has dismantled the EPA to make sure they explicitly don't do anything about climate change [2]. Second, I'm going to need some sources for your stats. It looks like in the Gallup polls, we still have roughly 69% of Republicans who claim that climate change is greatly exaggerated [3], with only 35% of Republicans who think humans are the cause of it, and only 18% or Republicans that think it will cause any problems in their lifetime. [1] https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/03/hillary-clinton/yes-donald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun... [2] https://mashable.com/2017/02/03/trump-epa-climate-website-changes/ https://mashable.com/2017/02/03/trump-epa-climate-website-ch... [3] https://news.gallup.com/poll/231530/global-warming-concern-steady-despite-partisan-shifts.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/231530/global-warming-concern-s...
  - buildzr 7y ago
    While there may be truth there, those numbers don't take into account the strength of those beliefs, also note that if I'm not mistaken, it's not counting independents who may vote republican, so the pool is actually much smaller in terms of overall Americans. I think this was the study I'd seen if you're interested: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/americans-who-accept-climate-change-outnumber-those-who-dont-5-to-1 https://e360.yale.edu/digest/americans-who-accept-climate-ch...

pjc50 7y ago

> Isn't it also reasonable to think that people consider the information they take in? We started this conversation talking about people who believe the earth is flat.

buildzr 7y ago
Yes and the number of people who believe in something like that is actually rather small. That's kind of my point. These things get treated as way more serious than they are given actual belief rates.