5 ms·

>except that FaceApp is a Russian company? Well, I mean, nothing. Except that FaceApp is a Russian company. What was different about Huawei? Except that it wa

>except that FaceApp is a Russian company? Well, I mean, nothing. Except that FaceApp is a Russian company. What was different about Huawei? Except that it was a Chinese company. And here's the thing, I don't even necessarily disagree with the worry around these foreign companies. They are outside of our jurisdiction and these countries have been known to use companies on the behalf of their governments to perform intelligence/psy-op activities. Why is this different than the US? It's not. But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them. Therein lies the rub, as they say. Either you buy into post WWI America runs the world and our military prevented an apocalypse and got every American a car and garage by rigging the world markets and protecting the world with our Navy and every country has to go through us to technologically advance, or you are un-American? Tongue and cheek here, but this is seriously the proposition. This is the exact decision that was made and accelerated by our military during wartime. This is our playbook.

jbverschoor 7y ago
The Cold War never ended
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  Yes, it did. What's happening now is going on under a different set of paradigms. If you approach today's geopolitics or military considerations with a cold war mindset you will miss things out. Globalization has happened and that changes a lot of things.
  - mike_ivanov 7y ago
    "Globalization has happened and that changes a lot of things." This is exactly what they said before WWI.
    - mike_ivanov 7y ago
      Context (please read): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/29/the-world-today-looks-ominously-like-it-did-before-world-war-i/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/29/the-w... This specific way FaceApp resonates in mass and social media is quite telling.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - johnchristopher 7y ago
        Interesting, thanks. I still disagree about the cold war not being over though and how the situation is different from the cold war.
- jklinger410 7y ago
  The cold war went private.
dillonmckay 7y ago
Yet, no outrage at the possibility of the state of Florida and other states selling much more personally identifiable information without restriction.
- dstroot 7y ago
  Link?
  - privong 7y ago
    https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/i-team-florida-dmv-sells-your-personal-information-to-private-companies-marketing-firms https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investi... And HN comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20438289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20438289
johnchristopher 7y ago
> Why is this different than the US? It's not. But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them. Therein lies the rub, as they say. Yeah, well, no, stop. Facebook and social networks are regularly taking punches in the face and the US never prevented vkontact, mastodon or other clone to develop. There isn't a moratorium on social networks and public agreement to "limit the scope of our arsenal".
- jklinger410 7y ago
  My only point is that we are not perfect. Can I point to the number of private/government partnerships that cross ethical lines? Mercenary groups (ie blackwater), Palantir, for-profit prisons, Tech companies complying with federal warrants, so-on. I will give you that it's not 1:1, and I think that's a fair counterpoint to people who don't trust the US.
  - johnchristopher 7y ago
    > My only point is that we are not perfect. Can I point to the number of private/government partnerships that cross ethical lines? That's whataboutism.
thanatos_dem 7y ago
> What was different about Huawei? Except that it was a Chinese company. Well that and they blatantly steal from other companies, disregard copyrights and patents, and have the backing of the Chinese government protecting them from any real repercussions. They don’t even try to hide it with their product naming. Take the “MateBook X Pro” for example - https://consumer.huawei.com/en/laptops/matebook-x-pro/ https://consumer.huawei.com/en/laptops/matebook-x-pro/
clairity 7y ago
> "But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them." i assume this is part of the tongue-in-cheek, as ours is the only country to use nuclear bombs in war, so history is against trusting "our side" (generally don't like dichotomizing, but doing so here for expediency). with that said, our political institutions have so far been resiliant enough to resist the "mad man with red button" scenario, even with some poor choices of chief executives. in any case, i generally agree that none of these companies really deserves our trust, regardless of political or geographic affiliation. like tv/internet providers or mobile telecom, vigilance is warranted as they should be considered hostile actors (in that they don't share your interests, not literally violence).
lone_haxx0r 7y ago
> This is the exact decision that was made and accelerated by our military during wartime. This is our playbook. I think journalists publish these articles not because they're (consciously) following the playbook, but because it's what sells. Maybe people want to read stories about Russian "enemies" more than they want to see stories about American "enemies". Or maybe journalists have the best intentions and they know the privacy battle is lost against Facebook, Instagram, Amazon. but it's not yet lost against the Russians etc.
mkbkn 7y ago
> But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them. Like bombing Japan with nuclear weapons and murdering thousands of people?

jbverschoor 7y ago

The Cold War never ended

johnchristopher 7y ago
Yes, it did. What's happening now is going on under a different set of paradigms. If you approach today's geopolitics or military considerations with a cold war mindset you will miss things out. Globalization has happened and that changes a lot of things.
- mike_ivanov 7y ago
  "Globalization has happened and that changes a lot of things." This is exactly what they said before WWI.
  - mike_ivanov 7y ago
    Context (please read): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/29/the-world-today-looks-ominously-like-it-did-before-world-war-i/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/29/the-w... This specific way FaceApp resonates in mass and social media is quite telling.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - johnchristopher 7y ago
      Interesting, thanks. I still disagree about the cold war not being over though and how the situation is different from the cold war.
jklinger410 7y ago
The cold war went private.

dillonmckay 7y ago

Yet, no outrage at the possibility of the state of Florida and other states selling much more personally identifiable information without restriction.

dstroot 7y ago
Link?
- privong 7y ago
  https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/i-team-florida-dmv-sells-your-personal-information-to-private-companies-marketing-firms https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investi... And HN comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20438289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20438289

johnchristopher 7y ago

> Why is this different than the US? It's not. But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them. Therein lies the rub, as they say. Yeah, well, no, stop. Facebook and social networks are regularly taking punches in the face and the US never prevented vkontact, mastodon or other clone to develop. There isn't a moratorium on social networks and public agreement to "limit the scope of our arsenal".

jklinger410 7y ago
My only point is that we are not perfect. Can I point to the number of private/government partnerships that cross ethical lines? Mercenary groups (ie blackwater), Palantir, for-profit prisons, Tech companies complying with federal warrants, so-on. I will give you that it's not 1:1, and I think that's a fair counterpoint to people who don't trust the US.
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  > My only point is that we are not perfect. Can I point to the number of private/government partnerships that cross ethical lines? That's whataboutism.

thanatos_dem 7y ago

> What was different about Huawei? Except that it was a Chinese company. Well that and they blatantly steal from other companies, disregard copyrights and patents, and have the backing of the Chinese government protecting them from any real repercussions. They don’t even try to hide it with their product naming. Take the “MateBook X Pro” for example - https://consumer.huawei.com/en/laptops/matebook-x-pro/ https://consumer.huawei.com/en/laptops/matebook-x-pro/

clairity 7y ago

> "But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them." i assume this is part of the tongue-in-cheek, as ours is the only country to use nuclear bombs in war, so history is against trusting "our side" (generally don't like dichotomizing, but doing so here for expediency). with that said, our political institutions have so far been resiliant enough to resist the "mad man with red button" scenario, even with some poor choices of chief executives. in any case, i generally agree that none of these companies really deserves our trust, regardless of political or geographic affiliation. like tv/internet providers or mobile telecom, vigilance is warranted as they should be considered hostile actors (in that they don't share your interests, not literally violence).

lone_haxx0r 7y ago

> This is the exact decision that was made and accelerated by our military during wartime. This is our playbook. I think journalists publish these articles not because they're (consciously) following the playbook, but because it's what sells. Maybe people want to read stories about Russian "enemies" more than they want to see stories about American "enemies". Or maybe journalists have the best intentions and they know the privacy battle is lost against Facebook, Instagram, Amazon. but it's not yet lost against the Russians etc.

mkbkn 7y ago

> But it's like nuclear weapons, yeah? We are the only ones who can be trusted with them. Like bombing Japan with nuclear weapons and murdering thousands of people?