7 ms·

Exactly, give it a few millennia, and some specie probably will end up like us in their own way. We had to have bases for our current behaviors, and it's only

Exactly, give it a few millennia, and some specie probably will end up like us in their own way. We had to have bases for our current behaviors, and it's only logical we find it in other species. I don't understand how people can imagine animals don't have feelings, thoughts, logic or a sense of existing. There is little in us that is so unique. It's like life on other planets, or additional dimensions we can't see. Yes we can't prove it now, but it would be disproving it that would really catch me by surprise given what we know now. The universe kinda like repeating patterns and continuity.

ajuc 7y ago
> Exactly, give it a few millennia, and some specie probably will end up like us in their own way. I'm all for evolution, and I think animals have feelings and emotions and are smarter than they are often considered. But "they will end up like us" is highly unlikely as we know of no other such development in last few billion years.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Sure we do. Neanderthals look to have been far more sophisticated than previously thought, for example.
  - zeven7 7y ago
    Neanderthals not only developed along the same evolutionary path as us... they're full blown homo sapiens. There's a high likelihood you have Neanderthal DNA yourself. That's not an example of something else being able to develop like us independently in 5,000 years. If all humans were wiped out today, _maybe_ over _100,000 years to 1,000,000 years_ the great apes would be able to evolve into creatures as intelligent as modern humans. But if all apes were wiped out today, it wouldn't be surprising if Earth never saw another species go to the moon. Don't forget lots of species thrived for hundred of millions of years without leaving any trace approaching even simple tool making.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      > Don't forget lots of species thrived for hundred of millions of years without leaving any trace approaching even simple tool making. Apes are hardly the only tool makers, though. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/10/crow-that-bent-wire-to-retrieve-food-was-acting-naturally-scientists-discover https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/10/crow-that-be...
  - dhimes 7y ago
    I think we're up to eight (or is it nine?) species now, including Neanderthals, if the latest pans out. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/04/new-species-ancient-human-discovered-luzon-philippines-homo-luzonensis/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/04/new-speci... https://www.ancienthistorylists.com/people/7-homo-species-close-present-human-existed-earth/ https://www.ancienthistorylists.com/people/7-homo-species-cl...
  - ajuc 7y ago
    That's not independent of us, it still happened once in billions years.
- sametmax 7y ago
  Conveniently ignoring "in their own way".
  - ajuc 7y ago
    If their own way doesn't include civilization then it's not really comparable, is it?
mannykannot 7y ago
While I completely agree with the point that evolutionists should not expect a sharp divide between the capabilities of humans and other animals, I think it is worth noting that it took something over half of the interval, in which complex life will be possible on Earth, for complex language to emerge. Of course, if humans disappear before we have eliminated all other large animals, its re-emergence could be quicker...
- sametmax 7y ago
  I wonder if there is space for only one human-level intelligent specie per world, or if it's a matter of circumstances. Are there worlds where there are 2 or 3 radically different civilized species sharing the land ? If we stopped killing everything and taking all the resources for ourselves, would we be able to witness the emergence of one in the next 5000 years ? More interestingly, would we be able to actually speed up said emergence by providing stimuli to a select number of species to drive them to self-realization ?
  - jbattle 7y ago
    5000 is still the blink of an eye. Homo Sapiens as a species is something like 300,000 years old and arose from prior species that were already more advanced than any other animal living today.
    - sametmax 7y ago
      Sure, and we estimate it took 200 000 years to develop spoken language. However, we had to come up with it by ourselves, without any external influence.
    - buzzerbetrayed 7y ago
      What happened to the “more advanced than any other living animal today” species? Based on my very limited understanding, it seems like some members of that advanced species would have diverged and eventually become Homo sapiens. But others would have remained members of that species and continued living today, or become some other advanced species that wasn’t homo sapien. Did something cause them to go extinct? Or am I understanding it wrong?
subjectsigma 7y ago
Comments like these make "fake news" make sense: two people perceiving the same things drastically differently. It's one word: language. No other animals come close. Animals signal to each other all the time, and none of it is nearly as complex or beautiful as language. You could make an argument for oral language being essentially the same as signaling but writing really blows any other behavior of animals out of the park. Whether or not you consider that to be "little" makes an insane amount of difference.
- sametmax 7y ago
  Of course. I'm not assuming writting, not even vocal communication. A language doesn't have to be in our form, just complex enough to drive a culture.

ajuc 7y ago

> Exactly, give it a few millennia, and some specie probably will end up like us in their own way. I'm all for evolution, and I think animals have feelings and emotions and are smarter than they are often considered. But "they will end up like us" is highly unlikely as we know of no other such development in last few billion years.

ceejayoz 7y ago
Sure we do. Neanderthals look to have been far more sophisticated than previously thought, for example.
- zeven7 7y ago
  Neanderthals not only developed along the same evolutionary path as us... they're full blown homo sapiens. There's a high likelihood you have Neanderthal DNA yourself. That's not an example of something else being able to develop like us independently in 5,000 years. If all humans were wiped out today, _maybe_ over _100,000 years to 1,000,000 years_ the great apes would be able to evolve into creatures as intelligent as modern humans. But if all apes were wiped out today, it wouldn't be surprising if Earth never saw another species go to the moon. Don't forget lots of species thrived for hundred of millions of years without leaving any trace approaching even simple tool making.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > Don't forget lots of species thrived for hundred of millions of years without leaving any trace approaching even simple tool making. Apes are hardly the only tool makers, though. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/10/crow-that-bent-wire-to-retrieve-food-was-acting-naturally-scientists-discover https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/10/crow-that-be...
- dhimes 7y ago
  I think we're up to eight (or is it nine?) species now, including Neanderthals, if the latest pans out. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/04/new-species-ancient-human-discovered-luzon-philippines-homo-luzonensis/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/04/new-speci... https://www.ancienthistorylists.com/people/7-homo-species-close-present-human-existed-earth/ https://www.ancienthistorylists.com/people/7-homo-species-cl...
- ajuc 7y ago
  That's not independent of us, it still happened once in billions years.
sametmax 7y ago
Conveniently ignoring "in their own way".
- ajuc 7y ago
  If their own way doesn't include civilization then it's not really comparable, is it?

mannykannot 7y ago

While I completely agree with the point that evolutionists should not expect a sharp divide between the capabilities of humans and other animals, I think it is worth noting that it took something over half of the interval, in which complex life will be possible on Earth, for complex language to emerge. Of course, if humans disappear before we have eliminated all other large animals, its re-emergence could be quicker...

sametmax 7y ago
I wonder if there is space for only one human-level intelligent specie per world, or if it's a matter of circumstances. Are there worlds where there are 2 or 3 radically different civilized species sharing the land ? If we stopped killing everything and taking all the resources for ourselves, would we be able to witness the emergence of one in the next 5000 years ? More interestingly, would we be able to actually speed up said emergence by providing stimuli to a select number of species to drive them to self-realization ?
- jbattle 7y ago
  5000 is still the blink of an eye. Homo Sapiens as a species is something like 300,000 years old and arose from prior species that were already more advanced than any other animal living today.
  - sametmax 7y ago
    Sure, and we estimate it took 200 000 years to develop spoken language. However, we had to come up with it by ourselves, without any external influence.
  - buzzerbetrayed 7y ago
    What happened to the “more advanced than any other living animal today” species? Based on my very limited understanding, it seems like some members of that advanced species would have diverged and eventually become Homo sapiens. But others would have remained members of that species and continued living today, or become some other advanced species that wasn’t homo sapien. Did something cause them to go extinct? Or am I understanding it wrong?

subjectsigma 7y ago

Comments like these make "fake news" make sense: two people perceiving the same things drastically differently. It's one word: language. No other animals come close. Animals signal to each other all the time, and none of it is nearly as complex or beautiful as language. You could make an argument for oral language being essentially the same as signaling but writing really blows any other behavior of animals out of the park. Whether or not you consider that to be "little" makes an insane amount of difference.

sametmax 7y ago
Of course. I'm not assuming writting, not even vocal communication. A language doesn't have to be in our form, just complex enough to drive a culture.