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I think it's not that odd. People assume that incognito means, well, "incognito" – like "anonymous browsing". But there are obviously more ways to identify a us

by WA 7y ago

I think it's not that odd. People assume that incognito means, well, "incognito" – like "anonymous browsing". But there are obviously more ways to identify a user besides cookies that are cleared/reset when incognito mode is closed and re-opened. Edit: To clarify: The easiest would be an IP address check. More sophisticated techniques are browser fingerprinting. And I think there's no reason to assume that Google/Facebook/AdTech companies DON'T use these techniques.

luckylion 7y ago
> To clarify: The easiest would be an IP address check. More sophisticated techniques are browser fingerprinting. And I think there's no reason to assume that Google/Facebook/AdTech companies DON'T use these techniques. Regarding IPs: it would be legally problematic and might be exposed leading to terrible press, large fines and a strong argument for more regulation, so there's a lot of incentive not to use it, and I'm not sure they would even need it given the vast amount of information they have on users. Regarding fingerprinting: I believe somebody would have noticed. Google and FB are generally scrutinized much more than a random small ad-tech vendor.
- WA 7y ago
  Sorry, are you serious or is this sarcasm? Facebook has shown in the recent months that they try to obtain data about users in every possible way. Collecting and comparing the IP address is the simplest exercise in the book. This, of course, is probably sold as "making your account more secure". It's incredible that on a site like HN people truly seem to believe that "incognito mode" equals some sort of anonymity and that there is such as thing like goodwill of Ad companies and that they won't take whatever data that is served on a silver plate (like the IP address). And you know what's really troublesome? One's sexual preferences are unlikely to change by a lot. Once captured by tracking companies, it's in your profile. Doesn't matter if you prevent tracking later on.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > Collecting and comparing the IP address is the simplest exercise in the book. This, of course, is probably sold as "making your account more secure". Sure, and if you agree to it, they can. If you don't, however, and somebody blows the whistle, they'll be looking at huge fines in Europe and most of their lobbying will be void because their bought politicians will look very corrupt if they try to stop regulations. Again, I don't believe that they don't do it because "it's not ethical". Rather, it's going to cost them lots of money if they do and get caught (and lots of good will, too), and I doubt that they need it. IPs would be another data point, but they have so many already that it may not add as much value. That's for FB, Google & co, of course, for small ad-tech companies it's different. > Once captured by tracking companies, it's in your profile. Doesn't matter if you prevent tracking later on. That's true, and the reason why you'd want to disable tracking completely. As a user, you gain nothing from companies being able to track you, but you lose plenty. Again, I'm not suggesting that companies aren't tracking users, I'm saying that Google and FB are likely not operating that obviously that far outside the law. They can, sure, but they'll need to run a large conspiracy to keep it secret, and large conspiracies are hard and rare.
    - WA 7y ago
      Facebook collects phone numbers of random people, if a FB user uploads their contact list. Facebook collects data in shadow profiles. Facebook collects login credentials for email accounts. Facebook asks for phone numbers for "two-factor authentication" and then uses it in different ways. Similar for Google. Most default options are enabled if you set up an Android phone (and these options and settings track you). Opt-in? Off by default? Nothing. Just to name one example. Dark patterns to give consent everywhere, like buttons suggesting that opt-in is the only way to do it and so on. All of this is kinda known, and illegal under GDPR. Consequences so far? None.
wongarsu 7y ago
I just checked both Firefox and Chrome. When you open an incognito window both show a text snippet explaining what incognito mode is, and both go out of their way to explain that incognito mode does not make you anonymous to the website operator. It only claims to help against local users looking at your browsing history.

by WA 7y ago

luckylion 7y ago

> To clarify: The easiest would be an IP address check. More sophisticated techniques are browser fingerprinting. And I think there's no reason to assume that Google/Facebook/AdTech companies DON'T use these techniques. Regarding IPs: it would be legally problematic and might be exposed leading to terrible press, large fines and a strong argument for more regulation, so there's a lot of incentive not to use it, and I'm not sure they would even need it given the vast amount of information they have on users. Regarding fingerprinting: I believe somebody would have noticed. Google and FB are generally scrutinized much more than a random small ad-tech vendor.

WA 7y ago
Sorry, are you serious or is this sarcasm? Facebook has shown in the recent months that they try to obtain data about users in every possible way. Collecting and comparing the IP address is the simplest exercise in the book. This, of course, is probably sold as "making your account more secure". It's incredible that on a site like HN people truly seem to believe that "incognito mode" equals some sort of anonymity and that there is such as thing like goodwill of Ad companies and that they won't take whatever data that is served on a silver plate (like the IP address). And you know what's really troublesome? One's sexual preferences are unlikely to change by a lot. Once captured by tracking companies, it's in your profile. Doesn't matter if you prevent tracking later on.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > Collecting and comparing the IP address is the simplest exercise in the book. This, of course, is probably sold as "making your account more secure". Sure, and if you agree to it, they can. If you don't, however, and somebody blows the whistle, they'll be looking at huge fines in Europe and most of their lobbying will be void because their bought politicians will look very corrupt if they try to stop regulations. Again, I don't believe that they don't do it because "it's not ethical". Rather, it's going to cost them lots of money if they do and get caught (and lots of good will, too), and I doubt that they need it. IPs would be another data point, but they have so many already that it may not add as much value. That's for FB, Google & co, of course, for small ad-tech companies it's different. > Once captured by tracking companies, it's in your profile. Doesn't matter if you prevent tracking later on. That's true, and the reason why you'd want to disable tracking completely. As a user, you gain nothing from companies being able to track you, but you lose plenty. Again, I'm not suggesting that companies aren't tracking users, I'm saying that Google and FB are likely not operating that obviously that far outside the law. They can, sure, but they'll need to run a large conspiracy to keep it secret, and large conspiracies are hard and rare.
  - WA 7y ago
    Facebook collects phone numbers of random people, if a FB user uploads their contact list. Facebook collects data in shadow profiles. Facebook collects login credentials for email accounts. Facebook asks for phone numbers for "two-factor authentication" and then uses it in different ways. Similar for Google. Most default options are enabled if you set up an Android phone (and these options and settings track you). Opt-in? Off by default? Nothing. Just to name one example. Dark patterns to give consent everywhere, like buttons suggesting that opt-in is the only way to do it and so on. All of this is kinda known, and illegal under GDPR. Consequences so far? None.

wongarsu 7y ago

I just checked both Firefox and Chrome. When you open an incognito window both show a text snippet explaining what incognito mode is, and both go out of their way to explain that incognito mode does not make you anonymous to the website operator. It only claims to help against local users looking at your browsing history.