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> The reason people don't prefer the train vs. almost every other mode of transportation is because its extremely expensive. Making it faster isn't going to sol

by mrpopo 7y ago

> The reason people don't prefer the train vs. almost every other mode of transportation is because its extremely expensive. Making it faster isn't going to solve the root problem. Many companies choose the faster transportation method over the cheaper one for business trips. Fast train connections to Hamburg, Germany or Stockholm, Sweden could make Copenhagen a more attractive city for business implementation. It isn't only about personal travel.

blue_devil 7y ago
Valid point, but wonder if business-sponsored travel results in inflated price for other types of travel?
- Mordisquitos 7y ago
  It often results in the opposite, with business travel indirectly subsidising personal travel. Charging inflated prices for business travel (whether it's for travelling in a higher class or booking with short notice) makes it easier for operators to provide lower cost offerings to fill the bulk of their seats for those who book in advance – most often tourists.
  - oposa 7y ago
    It is a matter of perspective, but I think the more accurate view is that personal travel is what keeps the trains (or the planes) running and business travel makes the profit. You need the "bulk" for flexibility, frequency and maintenance. That is why there are plenty of low cost airlines, but almost no business class only ones. Differential pricing in itself becomes problem when it comes to something were the value is partly external. Countries that want to maximize utility will have to reconcile with the idea that some of the value won't be captured by the train company. Most countries don't charge different rates for roads, but try to make the best roads and then collect taxes.
mrweasel 7y ago
But it's still much much faster to fly. Right now flying is cheaper and faster, you can't make the trains fast enough.
- oposa 7y ago
  You can, because you just have to make them fast enough to be competitive. Really fast train will probably never be widespread because they require to much infrastructure. A train going 5 times the speed of a car requires a lot of very expensive track per hour of travel. That is why the Chinese maglev only travels ~1 minute at top speed. But going 2 to 3 times the speed of a car is competitive as the tracks are cheaper and airplanes are expensive (both in cost and time) to stop. It all of course depends on local factors, but from 2 times the speed of a car trains start taking a lot of passengers from airplanes. (There is also other benefits, like that trains don't generally go away. There are many places in Europe that are relatively hard or expensive to fly to).

by mrpopo 7y ago

blue_devil 7y ago

Valid point, but wonder if business-sponsored travel results in inflated price for other types of travel?

Mordisquitos 7y ago
It often results in the opposite, with business travel indirectly subsidising personal travel. Charging inflated prices for business travel (whether it's for travelling in a higher class or booking with short notice) makes it easier for operators to provide lower cost offerings to fill the bulk of their seats for those who book in advance – most often tourists.
- oposa 7y ago
  It is a matter of perspective, but I think the more accurate view is that personal travel is what keeps the trains (or the planes) running and business travel makes the profit. You need the "bulk" for flexibility, frequency and maintenance. That is why there are plenty of low cost airlines, but almost no business class only ones. Differential pricing in itself becomes problem when it comes to something were the value is partly external. Countries that want to maximize utility will have to reconcile with the idea that some of the value won't be captured by the train company. Most countries don't charge different rates for roads, but try to make the best roads and then collect taxes.

mrweasel 7y ago

But it's still much much faster to fly. Right now flying is cheaper and faster, you can't make the trains fast enough.

oposa 7y ago
You can, because you just have to make them fast enough to be competitive. Really fast train will probably never be widespread because they require to much infrastructure. A train going 5 times the speed of a car requires a lot of very expensive track per hour of travel. That is why the Chinese maglev only travels ~1 minute at top speed. But going 2 to 3 times the speed of a car is competitive as the tracks are cheaper and airplanes are expensive (both in cost and time) to stop. It all of course depends on local factors, but from 2 times the speed of a car trains start taking a lot of passengers from airplanes. (There is also other benefits, like that trains don't generally go away. There are many places in Europe that are relatively hard or expensive to fly to).