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In the Netherlands this also happened some times on webshops. And everytime a judge ruled people had to bring the goods back or should pay the full amount. Th

In the Netherlands this also happened some times on webshops. And everytime a judge ruled people had to bring the goods back or should pay the full amount. The reason is that it is very clear for the buyer it is a mistake. And almost all webshops have a legal notice about wrong or false prices.

mattashii 7y ago
> And everytime a judge ruled people had to bring the goods back or should pay the full amount. This is slightly different from what I remember, so can you link me an example? Last time I checked, the webshop must fulfill the order, unless the price is obviously wrong, and the webshop cannot force a return for something the customer has already recieved and paid for.
- want2know 7y ago
  Here an example (in Dutch): http://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inziendocument?id=ECLI:NL:GHSHE:2008:BC2420 http://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inziendocument?id=ECLI:NL:G...
  - mattashii 7y ago
    Ah, I see. So, in short, you can be forced to return an order, but that is only because the order was not made with a "legal" price [0], so no legal transaction has taken place, and all that happened was you sending the webshop money without cause, and they mistakenly sending you a product, which both must be returned upon request by the other party. [0] a "legal" price is a price which the customer would expect for such a product. But in a shop advertising "up to 60% off", a 50% off TV would still be legal price, even if it is a price error.
    - want2know 7y ago
      Yes. It is a little more complicated than I posted earlier, but the point is that not all parties agreed on the arrangement so there was no arrangement.
  - ridaj 7y ago
    I don't see anything here where it says people had to bring back TVs. Seems like orders were unilaterally cancelled by the seller.
mikorym 7y ago
I think that if Amazon does ship these (and it seems some already did) it's actually pretty neat advertisement for them. Any publicity is good publicity, right? I wonder how much an advertisement campaign with this amount of buzz usually costs.
- novaRom 7y ago
  Absolutely. It is a tiny fraction with significant publicity effect. It's even here on HN discussion.
- want2know 7y ago
  Yes but it has more costs involved than just this. For example the statistics of the brands Sony and Canon are now wrong and the budget of advertising is still as it was yesterday. So the bookkeepers have a lot of exta work to get this straight.
  - john_minsk 7y ago
    They won't even notice that. Data collection at this scale is anyway not 100% accurate. Especially for marketing purposes. On the flip side if their data collection is that good they can see who was on the fence to purchase high-end gear for photo shooting, but bought the deal. That can lead to opening new demographics or targeting them with features people want from top models. Only having full information, you could argue which option is better. I definitely hope that they don't have data at this level.
Freak_NL 7y ago
If I remember correctly, in these cases (bunk beds and televisions) the orders were never fulfilled. The court ruled that a sales contract is not binding if the buyer can reasonably suspect that the price shown is so absurdly low that an error on the side of the seller is apparent. That is, you can try to order the item, but the seller has no legal obligation of fulfilling it if they can proof beyond reasonable doubt that a mistake was made, and can return the money instead.
- LeonidasXIV 7y ago
  This is because (at least in many shops in the EU) ordering does imply a sale, no contract has been made, it is only a notion of intent (which if you read the T&C in the order confirmation you'll find pretty often). The contract is only made when the company ships it, thus agreeing to the sale.
  - Uberphallus 7y ago
    Actually the contract is in place when the order is confirmed. At least from EU webshops it's common to receive two mails, one for order received, another for order confirmed (potentially hours or even days later). This actually hit the spotlight recently in Spain as Dell advertised 1000-1800€ laptops for 29-35€ on their site[0]. Many people bought, received the first AND the second email around 5h later. If it wasn't for that second email, they could cancel the order no questions asked, but actually someone on their side said "yep, this order looks fine" and clicked confirm. Consumer associations are hitting Dell with all their force. [0] In Spanish: https://www.eldiario.es/tecnologia/portatiles-Dell-clientes-enfadados-marketing_0_907110099.html https://www.eldiario.es/tecnologia/portatiles-Dell-clientes-...
    - mlonkibjuyhv 7y ago
      My god Dell's webshop is a steaming pile of fun. I've only had to deal with being unable to order months on end - this sounds much more friendly!
      - 7y ago
londons_explore 7y ago
With Amazon having big ads saying "massive discounts on prime day", I as a buyer might well consider $3000 down to $100 is in fact a massive discount rather than a mistake.

mattashii 7y ago

> And everytime a judge ruled people had to bring the goods back or should pay the full amount. This is slightly different from what I remember, so can you link me an example? Last time I checked, the webshop must fulfill the order, unless the price is obviously wrong, and the webshop cannot force a return for something the customer has already recieved and paid for.

want2know 7y ago
Here an example (in Dutch): http://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inziendocument?id=ECLI:NL:GHSHE:2008:BC2420 http://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inziendocument?id=ECLI:NL:G...
- mattashii 7y ago
  Ah, I see. So, in short, you can be forced to return an order, but that is only because the order was not made with a "legal" price [0], so no legal transaction has taken place, and all that happened was you sending the webshop money without cause, and they mistakenly sending you a product, which both must be returned upon request by the other party. [0] a "legal" price is a price which the customer would expect for such a product. But in a shop advertising "up to 60% off", a 50% off TV would still be legal price, even if it is a price error.
  - want2know 7y ago
    Yes. It is a little more complicated than I posted earlier, but the point is that not all parties agreed on the arrangement so there was no arrangement.
- ridaj 7y ago
  I don't see anything here where it says people had to bring back TVs. Seems like orders were unilaterally cancelled by the seller.

mikorym 7y ago

I think that if Amazon does ship these (and it seems some already did) it's actually pretty neat advertisement for them. Any publicity is good publicity, right? I wonder how much an advertisement campaign with this amount of buzz usually costs.

novaRom 7y ago
Absolutely. It is a tiny fraction with significant publicity effect. It's even here on HN discussion.
want2know 7y ago
Yes but it has more costs involved than just this. For example the statistics of the brands Sony and Canon are now wrong and the budget of advertising is still as it was yesterday. So the bookkeepers have a lot of exta work to get this straight.
- john_minsk 7y ago
  They won't even notice that. Data collection at this scale is anyway not 100% accurate. Especially for marketing purposes. On the flip side if their data collection is that good they can see who was on the fence to purchase high-end gear for photo shooting, but bought the deal. That can lead to opening new demographics or targeting them with features people want from top models. Only having full information, you could argue which option is better. I definitely hope that they don't have data at this level.

Freak_NL 7y ago

If I remember correctly, in these cases (bunk beds and televisions) the orders were never fulfilled. The court ruled that a sales contract is not binding if the buyer can reasonably suspect that the price shown is so absurdly low that an error on the side of the seller is apparent. That is, you can try to order the item, but the seller has no legal obligation of fulfilling it if they can proof beyond reasonable doubt that a mistake was made, and can return the money instead.

LeonidasXIV 7y ago
This is because (at least in many shops in the EU) ordering does imply a sale, no contract has been made, it is only a notion of intent (which if you read the T&C in the order confirmation you'll find pretty often). The contract is only made when the company ships it, thus agreeing to the sale.
- Uberphallus 7y ago
  Actually the contract is in place when the order is confirmed. At least from EU webshops it's common to receive two mails, one for order received, another for order confirmed (potentially hours or even days later). This actually hit the spotlight recently in Spain as Dell advertised 1000-1800€ laptops for 29-35€ on their site[0]. Many people bought, received the first AND the second email around 5h later. If it wasn't for that second email, they could cancel the order no questions asked, but actually someone on their side said "yep, this order looks fine" and clicked confirm. Consumer associations are hitting Dell with all their force. [0] In Spanish: https://www.eldiario.es/tecnologia/portatiles-Dell-clientes-enfadados-marketing_0_907110099.html https://www.eldiario.es/tecnologia/portatiles-Dell-clientes-...
  - mlonkibjuyhv 7y ago
    My god Dell's webshop is a steaming pile of fun. I've only had to deal with being unable to order months on end - this sounds much more friendly!
    - 7y ago

londons_explore 7y ago

With Amazon having big ads saying "massive discounts on prime day", I as a buyer might well consider $3000 down to $100 is in fact a massive discount rather than a mistake.