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This is a complex problem rooted in the inexorable rise in property values that required 2 working to maintain a household by rent or purchase. In addition, aut

This is a complex problem rooted in the inexorable rise in property values that required 2 working to maintain a household by rent or purchase. In addition, automated food gathering and preparation in fast food style meant that there was not much of a saving by making your own meals at home. People grabbed takeout to save $$ as well as time. We see delivered food, ready to cook at home is dying - defeated by delivered take out food - it has tried and failed to get much traction. Now we have fast food container based takeout becoiming a run away success. 100 containers, parked in industrial areas, all over the place, equipped with food preparation and coooking gear and 50,000 foam plastic takeout clamshels all cooking the same menu, internet connected, orders accrue and are filled by the closest container. A mix of delivered and picked up food. No cash transactions - all debit or card based = nothing to rob and containers have good security. All driven by economics, customers as well as cookers are happy. The only problem is ease of new entries so there are so many container kitchens that many starve. Locals can limit numbers with the right laws.

knowaveragejoe 7y ago
> This is a complex problem rooted in the inexorable rise in property values that required 2 working to maintain a household by rent or purchase. Inexorable? Various cities have managed to prevent this phenomenon. Zoning is the root of the issue, but now everyone views their house as their primary investment and they'll fight to protect the eye-popping growth they've seen in their property value.
- paulddraper 7y ago
  It's inexorable due to increasing urbanization. More people want to live next to more people.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    No. Many people want to live somewhere they can get decent Internet connectivity and public services, and probably also some job they can survive off of. Neither are present in many rural areas and the amount of investment needed especially for infra to catch up is enormous - too much for governments facing a tax competition to rock bottom.
    - paulddraper 7y ago
      IDK about what level of "public services" are needed, but rural or rural-ish locations often have broadband connectivity, and are arguable easier to earn a living wage due to the low cost of living. I lived in Provo (college town, 50 miles south of Salt Lake City) a few years ago. Had Google Fiber, lots of jobs, and houses for <$200k. People want to live next to other people.
      - cjmcqueen 7y ago
        I grew up in Orem. Provo is not small or an example of most rural towns. Provo is incredibly progressive given the local church culture and university. I live in rural Iowa and broadband internet and the issue of low-education and long standing segregation have caused exactly the same issues of a depressed economy in our 5,000 people community. The laws of small numbers make it very difficult to succeed in big numbers capitalism.
        paulddraper 7y ago
        Unless it's immediately adjacent to other communities, 5,000 total population is indeed very rural. I've also lived in Belfair, WA which is <4,000 and isolated. [1]. The fiftieth largest high school stadium in Texas seats more than 2x that number. [2] Yellowstone National Park staffs that many people during the summer. [3] So, yeah, that's small. I understand why actually rural communities are popular for only a few people. But there's a lot that available between 10 people/sqmi farmland and NY/LA/DC/SF/Chicago metro area. Yet, big cities are still exploding. Because people like them. [1] https://suburbanstats.org/population/washington/how-many-people-live-in-belfair https://suburbanstats.org/population/washington/how-many-peo... [2] https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-high-school-stadiums-in-the-us.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-high-school-... [3] https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/parkfacts.htm https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/parkfacts.htm
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - masonic 7y ago
  - knowaveragejoe 7y ago
    So allow for greater density.
- aurizon 7y ago
  Yes, the selfish nature of man at it's worst...
yspeak 7y ago
Eating out is nearly never less expensive than preparing it yourself. It's just way more convenient and all of us are prone to do easy thing first. I would grant food stamp expansion has some role in changing the market but dollar stores have also expanded their offerings to thrifty customers which is an appeal to those who have less cash. They and mom and pop convenience stores are also way less capital intensive and use less real estate than large grocery stores that use lots of land. They can make a profit in these areas, the typical large grocery store selling produce (which must be a loss leader) cannot. Grocery stores that operate on paper thin margins and require a relatively large workforce and expensive refrigerators, freezers, and logistics required to sell produce have little incentive to spend money on usually more expensive urban inner city real estate in usually higher crime areas and a more transient work force. It's a recipe for failure. The answer if you are trapped in these areas is to do all you can to get out. The American dream has been defined by travel and is often fulfilled by new frontiers even if that means just a few neighborhoods over. I knew a mom who lived in Soutwest Philadelphia projects but took a job in Northeast Philly for the express reason of getting her son away from the gangs. The public commute was long and a huge sacrifice for her but necessary for her and her son's future.
gowld 7y ago
If you don't want junk food, you can enjoy simple healthy meals at home for cheaper than delivery. Even if you get your groceries delivered. But people like junk food
- RandomInteger4 7y ago
  This. In addition, I often see people propagate the myth that eating healthy costs more, which couldn't be further from the truth. The reality is that meal preparation and home cooked meals from basic ingredients are some of the healthiest things people can eat, assuming they understand basic concepts such as macro-nutrients and how they relate to body composition.

knowaveragejoe 7y ago

> This is a complex problem rooted in the inexorable rise in property values that required 2 working to maintain a household by rent or purchase. Inexorable? Various cities have managed to prevent this phenomenon. Zoning is the root of the issue, but now everyone views their house as their primary investment and they'll fight to protect the eye-popping growth they've seen in their property value.

paulddraper 7y ago
It's inexorable due to increasing urbanization. More people want to live next to more people.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  No. Many people want to live somewhere they can get decent Internet connectivity and public services, and probably also some job they can survive off of. Neither are present in many rural areas and the amount of investment needed especially for infra to catch up is enormous - too much for governments facing a tax competition to rock bottom.
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    IDK about what level of "public services" are needed, but rural or rural-ish locations often have broadband connectivity, and are arguable easier to earn a living wage due to the low cost of living. I lived in Provo (college town, 50 miles south of Salt Lake City) a few years ago. Had Google Fiber, lots of jobs, and houses for <$200k. People want to live next to other people.
    - cjmcqueen 7y ago
      I grew up in Orem. Provo is not small or an example of most rural towns. Provo is incredibly progressive given the local church culture and university. I live in rural Iowa and broadband internet and the issue of low-education and long standing segregation have caused exactly the same issues of a depressed economy in our 5,000 people community. The laws of small numbers make it very difficult to succeed in big numbers capitalism.
      - paulddraper 7y ago
        Unless it's immediately adjacent to other communities, 5,000 total population is indeed very rural. I've also lived in Belfair, WA which is <4,000 and isolated. [1]. The fiftieth largest high school stadium in Texas seats more than 2x that number. [2] Yellowstone National Park staffs that many people during the summer. [3] So, yeah, that's small. I understand why actually rural communities are popular for only a few people. But there's a lot that available between 10 people/sqmi farmland and NY/LA/DC/SF/Chicago metro area. Yet, big cities are still exploding. Because people like them. [1] https://suburbanstats.org/population/washington/how-many-people-live-in-belfair https://suburbanstats.org/population/washington/how-many-peo... [2] https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-high-school-stadiums-in-the-us.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-high-school-... [3] https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/parkfacts.htm https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/parkfacts.htm
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - masonic 7y ago
- knowaveragejoe 7y ago
  So allow for greater density.
aurizon 7y ago
Yes, the selfish nature of man at it's worst...

yspeak 7y ago

Eating out is nearly never less expensive than preparing it yourself. It's just way more convenient and all of us are prone to do easy thing first. I would grant food stamp expansion has some role in changing the market but dollar stores have also expanded their offerings to thrifty customers which is an appeal to those who have less cash. They and mom and pop convenience stores are also way less capital intensive and use less real estate than large grocery stores that use lots of land. They can make a profit in these areas, the typical large grocery store selling produce (which must be a loss leader) cannot. Grocery stores that operate on paper thin margins and require a relatively large workforce and expensive refrigerators, freezers, and logistics required to sell produce have little incentive to spend money on usually more expensive urban inner city real estate in usually higher crime areas and a more transient work force. It's a recipe for failure. The answer if you are trapped in these areas is to do all you can to get out. The American dream has been defined by travel and is often fulfilled by new frontiers even if that means just a few neighborhoods over. I knew a mom who lived in Soutwest Philadelphia projects but took a job in Northeast Philly for the express reason of getting her son away from the gangs. The public commute was long and a huge sacrifice for her but necessary for her and her son's future.

gowld 7y ago

If you don't want junk food, you can enjoy simple healthy meals at home for cheaper than delivery. Even if you get your groceries delivered. But people like junk food

RandomInteger4 7y ago
This. In addition, I often see people propagate the myth that eating healthy costs more, which couldn't be further from the truth. The reality is that meal preparation and home cooked meals from basic ingredients are some of the healthiest things people can eat, assuming they understand basic concepts such as macro-nutrients and how they relate to body composition.