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If Google had more business in China, the CCP could blackmail them into censoring their results in other countries as well. Just look at how the CCP bullied int

If Google had more business in China, the CCP could blackmail them into censoring their results in other countries as well. Just look at how the CCP bullied international airlines about Taiwan, the laws being awfully vague hasn't helped one bit. Letting the CCP export its censorship back into the West in the hopes that Google will improve life in China is a hell of a gamble.

devoply 7y ago
Yes exactly until CCP reforms itself there is no point in deepening business relationships which we know will lead to more censorship against what are mostly unjust, inhumane, undemocratic policies of the CCP. Mostly to protect the party and its chosen form of governance which has been rejected by most of the rest of the world.
- educationdata 7y ago
  Imagine this is an online discussion board for doctors, and now we are having a discussion on this topic in the news: "China is harvesting organs from detainees, tribunal concludes" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harve... And now imagine this comment goes on the top: > Our best surgeons in the U.S. should fly to China to help them with organ transportation. Without us, they will do organ transportation using those organs anyway. But we have better technology and higher successful rate. So why don't we just go there to help them save more lives?
dirtyid 7y ago
>bullied international airlines Airlines only remove Taiwanese paraphernalia when flights operates in China - you know complying to domestic Chinese laws. That's completely reasonable stuff that doesn't extend beyond Chinese borders. Has Bing exported censorship back to the West. Has EU right to be forgotten even made it's way to US and Canada? This is just fear mongering.
- miles 7y ago
  >> Just look at how the CCP bullied international airlines about Taiwan > Airlines only remove Taiwanese paraphernalia when flights operates in China - you know complying to domestic Chinese laws. That's completely reasonable stuff that doesn't extend beyond Chinese borders. Three biggest US airlines bow to China Taiwan demand as deadline passes https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44948599 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44948599 Giving In to China, U.S. Airlines Drop Taiwan (in Name at Least) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/taiwan-american-airlines-china.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/taiwan-american-... Airlines switching to ‘Taiwan, China’ https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2147277/airlines-switching-taiwan-china-despite-white-houses https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/21... Associated Press found 20 carriers, including Air Canada, British Airways and Lufthansa, that now refer to Taiwan, the self-ruled island that Beijing considers Chinese territory, as a part of China on their global websites.
  - dirtyid 7y ago
    "Of course we hope that when they operate in China they respect China's laws and rules, China's sovereignty and territorial integrity and the feelings of the Chinese people." >Three biggest US airlines bow to China Taiwan demand as deadline passes That was interim solution, if you check AA / United / Delta, they removed references of "China" for Chinese/Taiwanese cities name altogether. Also asking companies to conform to UN recognized sovereign states as bullying is pretty silly.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Also asking companies to conform to UN recognized sovereign states as bullying is pretty silly. Your argument appears to be "an independent body also recognizes Taiwan as part of China so airlines should do the same". Here's the problem: the United Nations did so at the behest of China and thus your argument becomes "China dictated that the United Nations recognize Taiwan as part of China and the airlines should bow to the same request." This is circular logic at best.
bduerst 7y ago
Kind of like how they pushed Apple to move their iCloud data onto local Chinese datacenters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insight/apple-moves-to-store-icloud-keys-in-china-raising-human-rights-fears-idUSKCN1G8060 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh... Or how they then nationalized the company that has access to all the iCloud encryption keys for accessing Apple user messages, pictures, videos, files, etc. at rest: https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-data/#ahDzcDZPeiqd https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-d...
- wurst_case 7y ago
  Yikes. This is concerning but not surprising. After the Snowden leaks, a buddy of mine kept telling me that it was the tip of tmthe iceberg, that the private sector was even more dangerous than prism. I guess this is what he was talking about.
  - srcmap 7y ago
    Google's sensorvault keeps track of hundreds of millions phone's location data for the past TEN YEARS and share those data with police. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/googles-sensorvault-can-tell-police-where-youve-been https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/googles-sensorvault-ca...
    - bduerst 7y ago
      Which is only shared when a court-ordered subpoenaed is presented for the individual's data by the U.S. Government. If Google didn't comply then we would be complaining how they think they are above the law.
mikejb 7y ago
> If Google had more business in China, the CCP could blackmail them into censoring their results in other countries as well. It's easily forgotten that the nation currently lead by Donald Trump already has this power of international censorship. Doesn't even need hypothetical scenarios to be scary.

devoply 7y ago

Yes exactly until CCP reforms itself there is no point in deepening business relationships which we know will lead to more censorship against what are mostly unjust, inhumane, undemocratic policies of the CCP. Mostly to protect the party and its chosen form of governance which has been rejected by most of the rest of the world.

educationdata 7y ago
Imagine this is an online discussion board for doctors, and now we are having a discussion on this topic in the news: "China is harvesting organs from detainees, tribunal concludes" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harve... And now imagine this comment goes on the top: > Our best surgeons in the U.S. should fly to China to help them with organ transportation. Without us, they will do organ transportation using those organs anyway. But we have better technology and higher successful rate. So why don't we just go there to help them save more lives?

dirtyid 7y ago

>bullied international airlines Airlines only remove Taiwanese paraphernalia when flights operates in China - you know complying to domestic Chinese laws. That's completely reasonable stuff that doesn't extend beyond Chinese borders. Has Bing exported censorship back to the West. Has EU right to be forgotten even made it's way to US and Canada? This is just fear mongering.

miles 7y ago
>> Just look at how the CCP bullied international airlines about Taiwan > Airlines only remove Taiwanese paraphernalia when flights operates in China - you know complying to domestic Chinese laws. That's completely reasonable stuff that doesn't extend beyond Chinese borders. Three biggest US airlines bow to China Taiwan demand as deadline passes https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44948599 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44948599 Giving In to China, U.S. Airlines Drop Taiwan (in Name at Least) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/taiwan-american-airlines-china.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/taiwan-american-... Airlines switching to ‘Taiwan, China’ https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2147277/airlines-switching-taiwan-china-despite-white-houses https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/21... Associated Press found 20 carriers, including Air Canada, British Airways and Lufthansa, that now refer to Taiwan, the self-ruled island that Beijing considers Chinese territory, as a part of China on their global websites.
- dirtyid 7y ago
  "Of course we hope that when they operate in China they respect China's laws and rules, China's sovereignty and territorial integrity and the feelings of the Chinese people." >Three biggest US airlines bow to China Taiwan demand as deadline passes That was interim solution, if you check AA / United / Delta, they removed references of "China" for Chinese/Taiwanese cities name altogether. Also asking companies to conform to UN recognized sovereign states as bullying is pretty silly.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Also asking companies to conform to UN recognized sovereign states as bullying is pretty silly. Your argument appears to be "an independent body also recognizes Taiwan as part of China so airlines should do the same". Here's the problem: the United Nations did so at the behest of China and thus your argument becomes "China dictated that the United Nations recognize Taiwan as part of China and the airlines should bow to the same request." This is circular logic at best.

bduerst 7y ago

Kind of like how they pushed Apple to move their iCloud data onto local Chinese datacenters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insight/apple-moves-to-store-icloud-keys-in-china-raising-human-rights-fears-idUSKCN1G8060 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh... Or how they then nationalized the company that has access to all the iCloud encryption keys for accessing Apple user messages, pictures, videos, files, etc. at rest: https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-data/#ahDzcDZPeiqd https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-d...

wurst_case 7y ago
Yikes. This is concerning but not surprising. After the Snowden leaks, a buddy of mine kept telling me that it was the tip of tmthe iceberg, that the private sector was even more dangerous than prism. I guess this is what he was talking about.
- srcmap 7y ago
  Google's sensorvault keeps track of hundreds of millions phone's location data for the past TEN YEARS and share those data with police. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/googles-sensorvault-can-tell-police-where-youve-been https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/googles-sensorvault-ca...
  - bduerst 7y ago
    Which is only shared when a court-ordered subpoenaed is presented for the individual's data by the U.S. Government. If Google didn't comply then we would be complaining how they think they are above the law.

mikejb 7y ago

> If Google had more business in China, the CCP could blackmail them into censoring their results in other countries as well. It's easily forgotten that the nation currently lead by Donald Trump already has this power of international censorship. Doesn't even need hypothetical scenarios to be scary.