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Isn't paying for tethering the digital version of buying apples, but I have to pay a premium if I want to use them in a recipe?
by brink 7y ago
Isn't paying for tethering the digital version of buying apples, but I have to pay a premium if I want to use them in a recipe?
- gok 7y agoIt's more like having a different price for a buffet if you're eating in vs. taking it home. The phone data rates are set with an understanding that phones use less data than laptops.
- ringshall 7y agoI get what you are saying, but that analogy fails as well. There is a physical limit to how much one person can eat, while there is no limit to how much someone might take home. Whereas with data, there is no limit intrinsic to tethering vs in-phone. More to the point, in practice, people can easily use as much data in-phone as on a laptop, due to streaming video. Think, for example, of someone streaming music via YouTube for hours on end.
- OJFord 7y agoThere's the same limit on possible data usage as there as on possible food haulage: throughput.
- thaumasiotes 7y agoTethering automatically subjects you to exactly the same throughput limit the phone already had; the phone needs to personally make each request.
- scarejunba 7y agoIt's a usage pattern thing, not a physical capability thing. It's why I like Google Fi. I don't have any of these arguments. I'm just fully metered and there aren't any restrictions.
- i_am_proteus 7y agoIf you set up a hotspot so your friends can all (anti-socially) stream separate videos, that scales up beyond what one user would consume.
- Domenic_S 7y agoBut you can never exceed the throughput of the phone.
- gok 7y ago> More to the point, in practice, people can easily use as much data in-phone as on a laptop, due to streaming video. Think, for example, of someone streaming music via YouTube for hours on end. There are actually several tricks to make video streaming efficient for phones. The top sites are aggressively throttled [1]. This is harder to do for laptops, where users are typically connecting to corporate VPNs and stuff. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-04/youtube-and-netflix-throttled-by-carriers-research-finds https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-04/youtube-a...
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoI agree with you overall, but not this reasoning. Smartphones can connect to VPN's as well.
- darkpuma 7y agoThey can, but is it as common in practice? (I earnestly don't know.)
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoEvery VPN provider I'm aware of offers either a mobile app or set up instructions for Android and iOS. So while that doesn't really answer your question, I suspect there's a non-insignificant number of mobile VPN users.
- bradknowles 7y agoSure. And anyone who uses a VPN can get themselves limited, just like they were using a laptop, because the carrier thinks you're trying to hide something from them.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoHave you ever heard of on-phone VPN use being detected as tethering? I'd expect the victims of this to be quite upset!
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoDoes it matter whether the limit is physical or practical? On average, people use much less data when it's confined to a single phone than when they can share it with laptops. Here's a different analogy that might work better: I can shop at Costco as much as I want, and I can even buy things for other people, but I cannot literally give my Costco card to someone else and let them shop at the store on their own.
- Retric 7y agoNot when they are also charging you by the bit transferred. People also deal with various data caps when tethering, they just now also deal with an extra bill for a service provided by their phone not the phone company.
- tinus_hn 7y agoMuch more people are going to transfer a lot of data using a computer than using a phone. An hour of YouTube on a phone is only about a gigabyte, think of how quickly you download that on a laptop.
- em-bee 7y agoit's a reminder of the old days where ISPs limited your connection to one device and required to pay multiple times if you had more than one device at home. people got wise to it and found that by using a router they could hide multiple devices and the practice eventually stopped. it was based on the same argument that multiple devices would be used by multiple people and hence create more traffic. i don't know if this was common in the US, but it certainly was in some countries in europe.
- Spooky23 7y agoIt's a service offering issue for unlimited plans, and a customer experience issue for metered. Tethering is problematic in many ways with devices that don't expect to be metered. A Windows PC or Mac will sop up data sitting idle at a prodigious rate. For every informed consumer who understands that, there are 8 who are going to go crazy when they end up with a wacky bill.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- JadeNB 7y ago> A Windows PC or Mac will sop up data sitting idle at a prodigious rate. Thankfully, Windows finally offers a "This is a metered connection" option. Do you know how to get the equivalent functionality on a Mac? I've looked, but can't figure it out.
- scarejunba 7y agoAFAIK it doesn't exist and is part of the reason we don't have a MacBook with built-in LTE (can't stand dongles myself).
- fitzroy 7y agoThere’s an app called TripMode that does this. https://www.tripmode.ch/ https://www.tripmode.ch/ The fine-grained control is nice but still seems like a glaring omission that the Mac still isn’t “tethering-aware” with regard to conserving data — especially since it’s so seamless to connect to an iPhone that shares the same iCloud account.
- vjust 7y agoNot sure if this works as an analogy. Its like if you subscribe to netflix .. but if you want to share it with 4 family members, then get a family plan. You can simultaneously consume multiple streams of content. Tethering allows you to share the internet connection with other people, as well as your other devices - which is essentially you consuming multiple streams of internet data simultaneously.
- akersten 7y agoIt's all still limited by the throughout of the phone though. You could just as well open 4 streaming apps on the phone and pull the same data. To me, metering a "tethered" connection differently than the phone making the same requests is just as disgusting as an ISP charging you because you have a different number of computers connected to the internet on your residential connection. Or charging you more because you went to a streaming site. It's a blatant violation of net neutrality. If a cell phone company can't fulfill their advertised service of x mbit down / y mbit up, they shouldn't be offering it. Anything else is false advertising.
- salamander014 7y agoThis is a better analogy, but still not quite right. This issue constantly comes up with keeping the internet free and open. Take the following: The customer pays for their connection, say 10mbps over Verizon's network. Under a free and open internet, the customer is allowed to use that 10mbps that they PAID for in whatever damn way they please. Why should I be subject to Verizon's idea of what my connection should be used for? Congestion happens, but a properly designed network means that the pipes are mostly free and available under normal circumstances to all customers for all the bandwidth they paid for. Doesn't matter how many devices I use on the other side of that connection, I bought 10mbps and I should be able to use that 10mbps the way I want. This is price gouging. Plain and simple.
- southerntofu 7y ago> The customer pays for their connection, say 10mbps over Verizon's network. That's typically not what happens with commercial ISPs. You pay for access to some parts of the Internet with asymmetrical speeds (often 20Mbit to 1) and most times without even a publicly routable IP address ("for your security"). Even if you pay that commercial ISP for higher speeds, you can read in the contract that they're actually not guaranteed and that anyway people exceeding "reasonable limits" (usually not defined with actual numbers) will have access shut off. So sure you can do that on a non-profit and/or professional ISP because those will be explicit in what service is brought to you for what prices (without surprises) and they will usually stay out of your way when it comes to how you use the network (public IP, no port blocking, no priority for Youtube traffic over important mail, etc). So if you find this situation as revolting as i do, welcome to the fight against the telecoms industry! We can do better, cheaper, and more intimate Internet.
- mikestew 7y agoPaying for tethering is the digital equivalent of Shell or BP saying, "unlimited diesel for your compact car for $X/month. Add your 4mpg Hummer for only $Y/month additional!"
- AimForTheBushes 7y agoI like this analogy but they should just give me the compact car rate of gas for my Hummer.
- gcbw2 7y agothat's a very bad analogy. Apps waste way more bandwidth. It's better if you turn it around: "unlimited gas for you 4mpg hummer. But we will nickel and dime you if you try to ever fill up the 1L reserve tank on your electric scooter"
- y4mi 7y agoabsolutely not. the tethered devices use the same "gas tank" and would have to be directly connected at all times for that to work. so maybe "you get unlimited diesel for this car, but you'll have to pay extra if you want to charge your phone or laptop from the electricity generated from our diesel"
- dboreham 7y agoThis is an age-old trick humans like to play on each other that Economists have given the name "Price Discrimination" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination
- mobjack 7y agoIt is more like paying for a service where you can eat unlimited apples for a flat fee each month. If you want the ability to give apples to friends to eat, then it will costs extra.
- swiley 7y agoThat totally sounds like a startup idea. Maybe have an app or webpage where you push a button and some contracted delivery person brings you an apple.