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> If I invite friends from out of town over for the weekend, is that breaking the social contract? That's different. You know your friends. You don't know your

by pen2l 7y ago

> If I invite friends from out of town over for the weekend, is that breaking the social contract? That's different. You know your friends. You don't know your airbnb guests, and the reviews are only worth so much. I can't find the article now, but some porn company had an easy time gaming airbnb by getting good reviews in the beginning and using the place for shoots on the 10th stay or whatever. And, as a person who had I think ~15 airbnbs from 2015-2018, the recent change I don't like is that some houseowners hire an 18 year told (who I have to call and meet outside) and have him give me a hurried 10 minute intro and then leave. I actually _was_ one of those people who enjoyed airbnbs for the reasons they publicize (the 'it's not a hotel' line, the 'feel at home with friends!' type of thing) -- but that seems to have largely disappeared. Last time I was in an airbnb, I would always get these nasty glares from the neighborhoods, who seem to be just screaming "We don't want you here, strange" with their facial expressions. Staying at a hotel is indeed now much more comfortable, and the consistency of services (while not perfect) is better than airbnbs in my recent experiences.

fastball 7y ago
Right, so the owner is potentially breaking the social contract by maybe allowing someone without respect for others to stay in their home (though ratings systems are generally used exactly to allow this type of vetting in advance). But the guest is not automatically breaking the social contract by staying in an AirBnB, which is what was implied by the OC.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  The OC said, "the system breaks the social contract". > the owner is potentially breaking the social contract by maybe allowing someone without respect for others to stay in their home And a person walking around the gas station with an open flame is only potentially a fire hazard, because they may very well get lucky and not set any fuel fumes on fire. Reality doesn't work like that. You drop the "potentially" once the risk becomes predictably high. The owner is breaking the social contract by putting their neighbors at very high risk of dealing with guests who don't respect other people. > though ratings systems are generally used exactly to allow this type of vetting in advance Ranking systems are trivially gamed. One would think everyone knows this by now. > But the guest is not automatically breaking the social contract by staying in an AirBnB No, they're not. But if they behave as if they were in a hotel while in a residential-area AirBnB, they most likely are. Maybe they should know better than to behave like that. But AirBnB should know better than enabling this problem in the first place.
  - noxToken 7y ago
    I guess I feel this way, because I feel a small bit of responsibility towards my neighbors. Renting out a place is not inherently a violation of a social contract. > Reality doesn't work like that. You drop the "potentially" once the risk becomes predictably high. The owner is breaking the social contract by putting their neighbors at very high risk of dealing with guests who don't respect other people. A flood of legitimate complaints about poor guest behavior would likely make me stop - i.e. the pattern is now predictably high enough to make a logical conclusion. I hope that my neighbors would be courteous enough to do the same. > But AirBnB should know better than enabling this problem in the first place. I think someone else touched on this, but I have a feeling that the location attracts different types of guests. Beaches are a great example. The surrounding area is a good indicator if the beach is a party beach or more oriented for family vacations. The former typically has brighter lights, more bars, clubs, and places open later. Family-friendly beaches usually shut down activity around 10 or 11 save for the corner store that's open later. I bet the Airbnb guest behavior reflect this as well.
- AJ007 7y ago
  I don’t know what a social contract means, but in some cases you are breaking condo/apartment contracts and in other municipalities the owner is breaking the law. As far as I’ve ever heard, as a guest, the worst that is going to happen is you are going to be thrown out. Municipalities in general don’t want to scare away tourists or visitors, so I would be surprised to see any fines or penalties in that directions. Some municipalities have very large and escalating fines for listing on AirBnb. Miami Beach is $20,000 for first offense and I believe doubles on the second. Search “Airbnb Miami Beach” on google, and it is going to take you a while to figure that one out. I doubt most visitors have any idea.
CrazyStat 7y ago
> I actually _was_ one of those people who enjoyed airbnbs for the reasons they publicize (the 'it's not a hotel' line, the 'feel at home with friends!' type of thing) -- but that seems to have largely disappeared. Like many other things (search engine rankings come to mind), quality decreases as everybody figures out how to game the system to extract maximum profit for minimum effort. The rise of "superhosts" who manage dozens of properties from afar, using keypad locks to avoid any human interaction and contracting out cleaning to the lowest bidder, has undoubtedly been bad for the AirBnB experience. Yet AirBnB not only tolerates but actually celebrates them.

by pen2l 7y ago

fastball 7y ago

Right, so the owner is potentially breaking the social contract by maybe allowing someone without respect for others to stay in their home (though ratings systems are generally used exactly to allow this type of vetting in advance). But the guest is not automatically breaking the social contract by staying in an AirBnB, which is what was implied by the OC.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
The OC said, "the system breaks the social contract". > the owner is potentially breaking the social contract by maybe allowing someone without respect for others to stay in their home And a person walking around the gas station with an open flame is only potentially a fire hazard, because they may very well get lucky and not set any fuel fumes on fire. Reality doesn't work like that. You drop the "potentially" once the risk becomes predictably high. The owner is breaking the social contract by putting their neighbors at very high risk of dealing with guests who don't respect other people. > though ratings systems are generally used exactly to allow this type of vetting in advance Ranking systems are trivially gamed. One would think everyone knows this by now. > But the guest is not automatically breaking the social contract by staying in an AirBnB No, they're not. But if they behave as if they were in a hotel while in a residential-area AirBnB, they most likely are. Maybe they should know better than to behave like that. But AirBnB should know better than enabling this problem in the first place.
- noxToken 7y ago
  I guess I feel this way, because I feel a small bit of responsibility towards my neighbors. Renting out a place is not inherently a violation of a social contract. > Reality doesn't work like that. You drop the "potentially" once the risk becomes predictably high. The owner is breaking the social contract by putting their neighbors at very high risk of dealing with guests who don't respect other people. A flood of legitimate complaints about poor guest behavior would likely make me stop - i.e. the pattern is now predictably high enough to make a logical conclusion. I hope that my neighbors would be courteous enough to do the same. > But AirBnB should know better than enabling this problem in the first place. I think someone else touched on this, but I have a feeling that the location attracts different types of guests. Beaches are a great example. The surrounding area is a good indicator if the beach is a party beach or more oriented for family vacations. The former typically has brighter lights, more bars, clubs, and places open later. Family-friendly beaches usually shut down activity around 10 or 11 save for the corner store that's open later. I bet the Airbnb guest behavior reflect this as well.
AJ007 7y ago
I don’t know what a social contract means, but in some cases you are breaking condo/apartment contracts and in other municipalities the owner is breaking the law. As far as I’ve ever heard, as a guest, the worst that is going to happen is you are going to be thrown out. Municipalities in general don’t want to scare away tourists or visitors, so I would be surprised to see any fines or penalties in that directions. Some municipalities have very large and escalating fines for listing on AirBnb. Miami Beach is $20,000 for first offense and I believe doubles on the second. Search “Airbnb Miami Beach” on google, and it is going to take you a while to figure that one out. I doubt most visitors have any idea.

CrazyStat 7y ago

> I actually _was_ one of those people who enjoyed airbnbs for the reasons they publicize (the 'it's not a hotel' line, the 'feel at home with friends!' type of thing) -- but that seems to have largely disappeared. Like many other things (search engine rankings come to mind), quality decreases as everybody figures out how to game the system to extract maximum profit for minimum effort. The rise of "superhosts" who manage dozens of properties from afar, using keypad locks to avoid any human interaction and contracting out cleaning to the lowest bidder, has undoubtedly been bad for the AirBnB experience. Yet AirBnB not only tolerates but actually celebrates them.