6 ms·

As opposed to not doing anything which is the current state of Diabetes for the most part, which too, kills you and if not outright kills you then slowly does v

As opposed to not doing anything which is the current state of Diabetes for the most part, which too, kills you and if not outright kills you then slowly does via financial ruin. How many episodes of hypoglycemia do you think one needs to have, in an utterly broken healthcare system in which being ordered paramedics and given sugar pills costs you $XXXX per occurance. And if you're gonna talk to me about responsbility and healthy living please join the real world some time. That's why people choose to take actions into their own hands. Because being a victim of a system that just doesn't care enough leads you to either take the handles or down under.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hnal943 7y ago
That doesn't address his point, which is that a programmable pump isn't something you could sell because of the liability involved.
- hk2001 7y ago
  It is something you can sell, and is currently in development by major pharmaceutical companies.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Not end-user programmable, though.
wukerplank 7y ago
I think the parent did not criticize the DIY community, only stating that different rules apply to biotech companies. I know many people who use the loop system and their health benefits immensely from it.
Konnstann 7y ago
What does this even mean? Hacking an open-loop insulin pump and making it closed-loop doesn't eliminate the need for insulin, did you misread me as saying insulin prices are A-OK and diabetics should just eat healthy? All power to these knowledgeable, individuals, for doing something dangerous but potentially great. This is HN, full of smart people who understand the risk of failure and will monitor the crap out of their system and adjust and tinker until it's ok. The problem is people making tutorials and publicizing their work, which leads to people not as smart following their tutorial and thinking it will be alright. There are tons of papers on closed-loop systems, and probably clinical trials are happening as I write this comment. Medicine isn't one of the industries to "disrupt" though, as much as people on here want to believe.
- conjectures 7y ago
  Smart insulin pump sounds awesome. Bring them on. If it really is a smart insulin pump. Trouble was the article author was talking about 'reading his emotions' etc. There's a red flag for bullshit. AFAIK no publicly disclosed technology can, in general, read emotions. Also, why whatever signal they are using as 'emotions' is a perfect predictor of insulin levels, I don't know.
- carlmr 7y ago
  I studied control engineering, and I bet he forgot some things. A few things come to mind. How does he recognize sensor failure (pretty important in closed-loop systems, like MCAS for example)? Did he use floating point math which may cause numerical issues? Does he use integrators and limit their output? If he does limit the output does he counteract windup? If he uses neural networks, did he gather enough data that we can be sure that this things works? There's so many pitfalls here where teams of engineers with the whole part spec and from different disciplines have failed before. It sounds very dangerous.
  - penagwin 7y ago
    Fuzzing seems like a really useful test for this. Either way, I agree I'm not really subscribed to the idea that DIY life critical systems are a good idea beyond POC.
mox1 7y ago
I will just say this. Someone in the openloop / DIY pump community is eventually going to die or seriously injure themselves (or a family member) doing what they do. It's not an if , but a when.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  As long as this is someone who's actually working on the tech and knows what they're doing, this is only an unfortunate and very sad cost of progress. It's the risk they take, because they know they're doing good work. This does become a serious problem when it gets into the hands of people who don't know what they're doing, if they're convinced to trust the tech because "obviously the smart people working on it made sure it's safe".
simonebrunozzi 7y ago
Still, parent comment stands. We might agree it would be better to do something, but regulation is regulation. To change that, you need to vote the right pers... Ouch, I guess that never works either.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hnal943 7y ago

That doesn't address his point, which is that a programmable pump isn't something you could sell because of the liability involved.

hk2001 7y ago
It is something you can sell, and is currently in development by major pharmaceutical companies.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Not end-user programmable, though.

wukerplank 7y ago

I think the parent did not criticize the DIY community, only stating that different rules apply to biotech companies. I know many people who use the loop system and their health benefits immensely from it.

Konnstann 7y ago

What does this even mean? Hacking an open-loop insulin pump and making it closed-loop doesn't eliminate the need for insulin, did you misread me as saying insulin prices are A-OK and diabetics should just eat healthy? All power to these knowledgeable, individuals, for doing something dangerous but potentially great. This is HN, full of smart people who understand the risk of failure and will monitor the crap out of their system and adjust and tinker until it's ok. The problem is people making tutorials and publicizing their work, which leads to people not as smart following their tutorial and thinking it will be alright. There are tons of papers on closed-loop systems, and probably clinical trials are happening as I write this comment. Medicine isn't one of the industries to "disrupt" though, as much as people on here want to believe.

conjectures 7y ago
Smart insulin pump sounds awesome. Bring them on. If it really is a smart insulin pump. Trouble was the article author was talking about 'reading his emotions' etc. There's a red flag for bullshit. AFAIK no publicly disclosed technology can, in general, read emotions. Also, why whatever signal they are using as 'emotions' is a perfect predictor of insulin levels, I don't know.
carlmr 7y ago
I studied control engineering, and I bet he forgot some things. A few things come to mind. How does he recognize sensor failure (pretty important in closed-loop systems, like MCAS for example)? Did he use floating point math which may cause numerical issues? Does he use integrators and limit their output? If he does limit the output does he counteract windup? If he uses neural networks, did he gather enough data that we can be sure that this things works? There's so many pitfalls here where teams of engineers with the whole part spec and from different disciplines have failed before. It sounds very dangerous.
- penagwin 7y ago
  Fuzzing seems like a really useful test for this. Either way, I agree I'm not really subscribed to the idea that DIY life critical systems are a good idea beyond POC.

mox1 7y ago

I will just say this. Someone in the openloop / DIY pump community is eventually going to die or seriously injure themselves (or a family member) doing what they do. It's not an if , but a when.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
As long as this is someone who's actually working on the tech and knows what they're doing, this is only an unfortunate and very sad cost of progress. It's the risk they take, because they know they're doing good work. This does become a serious problem when it gets into the hands of people who don't know what they're doing, if they're convinced to trust the tech because "obviously the smart people working on it made sure it's safe".

simonebrunozzi 7y ago

Still, parent comment stands. We might agree it would be better to do something, but regulation is regulation. To change that, you need to vote the right pers... Ouch, I guess that never works either.