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... for now. What would be far more reassuring would be a statement from Google that Project Dragonfly does not meet their ethical standards as a company.

_jal 7y ago
Yeah. This seems rather like carriers selling location data, or the NSA and domestic surveillance. Both have stopped happening so many times that the only thing I'm sure about is that they will stop again sometime soon.
qserasera 7y ago
"The project was reported to have ceased late last year but rumors that it remained active persisted." so that's probably never going to be 'terminated'
- yoz-y 7y ago
  rumors != fact
  - ionised 7y ago
    I attended a talk by Jack Poulson (quit Google over Dragonfly and how it was handled) over the last weekend and he suggested that based on Google's reaction, it has definitely been simply shelved until the resistance and media attention dies down. The whole thing was carried out in secret to begin with and Sundar Pichai has been completely silent on how it jives with it's own ethical standards.
anvandare 7y ago
The fact that they even started the project speaks for itself. Companies don't have ethical standards, only slick PR departments.
- geophertz 7y ago
  Strangely people do not care about Apple doing the same thing. Even on HN posts talking about how Apple sells privacy as a product are upvoted and reach > 1000 upvotes.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    As I understand it, Apple allows iOS users to use an end to end encrypted product with an option to back up to Chinese Communist Party silo of iCloud. Apple does not offer a product that spies on user usage all the time monitoring for thought crime, as Web Search just under Chinese law.
  - ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
    You know what company was once in China and pulled out on moral grounds? Google. [1] Yet nobody cares, as evidenced by the number of companies who do plenty of business in China without backlash. So Google tries to go back to China, and everyone loses their minds. It's frustrating to be honest, it's as if they're be punished for a good deed they did 10 years ago. If they had just never left, they'd be in the same situation as Apple, where nobody (or magnitudes less, if you want to get pedantic) cares. I at least hope governments will ban Baidu from ever competing outside of China. I would hate to see Google suffer because they weren't ever allowed to compete with Baidu on their home turf. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-20...
    - tgragnato 7y ago
      > I at least hope governments will ban Baidu from ever competing outside of China. "If you open the window, both fresh air and flies will be blown in." 邓小平 That ideology works and benefits China only if there is a disparity between what China is allowed to do in the rest of the world and what China allows the world to do. I am also convinced that restoring an equal relationship is a great way to make the Chinese problem settle on its own.
    - CodiePetersen 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pgeorgi 7y ago
There was such a statement in 2010. Times, situations, decision makers can change, so how would such a statement help?

_jal 7y ago

Yeah. This seems rather like carriers selling location data, or the NSA and domestic surveillance. Both have stopped happening so many times that the only thing I'm sure about is that they will stop again sometime soon.

qserasera 7y ago

"The project was reported to have ceased late last year but rumors that it remained active persisted." so that's probably never going to be 'terminated'

yoz-y 7y ago
rumors != fact
- ionised 7y ago
  I attended a talk by Jack Poulson (quit Google over Dragonfly and how it was handled) over the last weekend and he suggested that based on Google's reaction, it has definitely been simply shelved until the resistance and media attention dies down. The whole thing was carried out in secret to begin with and Sundar Pichai has been completely silent on how it jives with it's own ethical standards.

anvandare 7y ago

The fact that they even started the project speaks for itself. Companies don't have ethical standards, only slick PR departments.

geophertz 7y ago
Strangely people do not care about Apple doing the same thing. Even on HN posts talking about how Apple sells privacy as a product are upvoted and reach > 1000 upvotes.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  As I understand it, Apple allows iOS users to use an end to end encrypted product with an option to back up to Chinese Communist Party silo of iCloud. Apple does not offer a product that spies on user usage all the time monitoring for thought crime, as Web Search just under Chinese law.
- ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
  You know what company was once in China and pulled out on moral grounds? Google. [1] Yet nobody cares, as evidenced by the number of companies who do plenty of business in China without backlash. So Google tries to go back to China, and everyone loses their minds. It's frustrating to be honest, it's as if they're be punished for a good deed they did 10 years ago. If they had just never left, they'd be in the same situation as Apple, where nobody (or magnitudes less, if you want to get pedantic) cares. I at least hope governments will ban Baidu from ever competing outside of China. I would hate to see Google suffer because they weren't ever allowed to compete with Baidu on their home turf. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-20...
  - tgragnato 7y ago
    > I at least hope governments will ban Baidu from ever competing outside of China. "If you open the window, both fresh air and flies will be blown in." 邓小平 That ideology works and benefits China only if there is a disparity between what China is allowed to do in the rest of the world and what China allows the world to do. I am also convinced that restoring an equal relationship is a great way to make the Chinese problem settle on its own.
  - CodiePetersen 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

pgeorgi 7y ago

There was such a statement in 2010. Times, situations, decision makers can change, so how would such a statement help?