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The energy costs associated with desalination are so high that the Dubai government wants to cut a piece of an iceberg from the South Pole and ship it to them f

The energy costs associated with desalination are so high that the Dubai government wants to cut a piece of an iceberg from the South Pole and ship it to them for fresh water.

Retric 7y ago
~3$ per 1,000 gallons or ~1,000$ per acre food is not cheap. But, assuming actual food scarcity and thus higher food prices, it’s still economically viable with proper crop selection. I am also rather hesitant to use 3$, if we are looking 20+ years from now 2c/kWh for battery backed up solar power at grid scale seems possible. Combined with even minor improvements in desalination would significantly lower prices.
- mogadsheu 7y ago
  What crops would those be? And why not just plant more crops in an area where water is plentiful, like the Amazon? And...isn’t that exactly what we’re doing, making more farmland from the rainforest?
  - Retric 7y ago
    This is simply an example not a suggestion. It’s kind of the worst case example as irritating land with more rainfall takes less water. Anyway, Corn would be a bad though not completely irrational crop. Going for a 2 acre feet of water high yield variety would cost 2k per acre. Now yields vary but 200 bu/acre makes it simple 10$ per bushel of corn. A bushel is 56 pounds so we are talking 18 cents per pound of corn. Not that big a deal.
    - ovi256 7y ago
      200 bu/acre is at the high end of corn yields, so your $10 cost estimate is probably a bit low. Current price per bushel of corn is $4.4. Adding $10 per bushel will be a huge economic shock. Given corn is a big input in most animal husbandry, this means most animal products will become more expensive. Middle and upper class people will probably be able to pay more and eat the same things, but not the lower class.
      - Retric 7y ago
        Yea, this would be bad. But, 14.4$ per bushel was in line with historic food prices. https://ourworldindata.org/food-prices https://ourworldindata.org/food-prices However, as I said this is more a thought experiment than a practical solution. Higher food prices would result in less meat consumption, food waste, and likely less obesity. The most likely outcome seems to be more food production in less ideal locations not farming a literal desert using desalination.
        ovi256 7y ago
        >14.4$ per bushel was in line with historic food prices Wow, good point, I did not expect that. So it should be sustainable, at least.
  - overcast 7y ago
    Trees are being cut down because humans can't control their lust for beef. The water / environment issue can be greatly reduced by eating more plants.
- Retric 7y ago
  * ‘acre-foot’, not ‘acre food’. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre-foot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre-foot

The energy costs associated with desalination are so high that the Dubai government wants to cut a piece of an iceberg from the South Pole and ship it to them for fresh water.

Retric 7y ago

~3$ per 1,000 gallons or ~1,000$ per acre food is not cheap. But, assuming actual food scarcity and thus higher food prices, it’s still economically viable with proper crop selection. I am also rather hesitant to use 3$, if we are looking 20+ years from now 2c/kWh for battery backed up solar power at grid scale seems possible. Combined with even minor improvements in desalination would significantly lower prices.

mogadsheu 7y ago
What crops would those be? And why not just plant more crops in an area where water is plentiful, like the Amazon? And...isn’t that exactly what we’re doing, making more farmland from the rainforest?
- Retric 7y ago
  This is simply an example not a suggestion. It’s kind of the worst case example as irritating land with more rainfall takes less water. Anyway, Corn would be a bad though not completely irrational crop. Going for a 2 acre feet of water high yield variety would cost 2k per acre. Now yields vary but 200 bu/acre makes it simple 10$ per bushel of corn. A bushel is 56 pounds so we are talking 18 cents per pound of corn. Not that big a deal.
  - ovi256 7y ago
    200 bu/acre is at the high end of corn yields, so your $10 cost estimate is probably a bit low. Current price per bushel of corn is $4.4. Adding $10 per bushel will be a huge economic shock. Given corn is a big input in most animal husbandry, this means most animal products will become more expensive. Middle and upper class people will probably be able to pay more and eat the same things, but not the lower class.
    - Retric 7y ago
      Yea, this would be bad. But, 14.4$ per bushel was in line with historic food prices. https://ourworldindata.org/food-prices https://ourworldindata.org/food-prices However, as I said this is more a thought experiment than a practical solution. Higher food prices would result in less meat consumption, food waste, and likely less obesity. The most likely outcome seems to be more food production in less ideal locations not farming a literal desert using desalination.
      - ovi256 7y ago
        >14.4$ per bushel was in line with historic food prices Wow, good point, I did not expect that. So it should be sustainable, at least.
- overcast 7y ago
  Trees are being cut down because humans can't control their lust for beef. The water / environment issue can be greatly reduced by eating more plants.
Retric 7y ago
* ‘acre-foot’, not ‘acre food’. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre-foot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre-foot