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Elon Musk: You Are Liable for My Malfunctioning Code

12 points by johnnyb_61820 7y ago

olliej 7y ago
This is the standard tech industry mantra, the only difference is that this is software designed specifically to control devices that by design are able to cause significant harm. At some point you have to ask: is selling a product for a specific purpose ok, if you are also including a license that says it may not actually be able to be safely used for that purpose?
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  Only if the jury says so.
jmpman 7y ago
The author seems quite spun up on this topic. I believe Elon is stating that the liability may land on the car owner’s insurance. During the presentation, Elon didn’t seem locked down on the specifics. Just as my own automobile insurance doesn’t apply when I’m driving for Uber or Lyft, I expect Tesla will need to provide insurance directly during the robotaxi usage. When I’m the occupant of the vehicle, I expect my own insurance will cover.
- johnnyb_61820 7y ago
  "I believe Elon is stating that the liability may land on the car owner’s insurance" There is never liability on insurance. Insurance is just a method of payment. It is possible that insurance will cover this, but that's irrelevant to the point.
  - jmpman 7y ago
    Maybe I don’t understand your point on “never liability on insurance”, but I have automobile liability insurance. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/automobile-liability-insurance.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/automobile-liability-in... If your point is that someone is going to die by these autonomous cars, and someone should be jailed for it... that’s another discussion. In theory you’d want society to say that if the autonomous cars kill fewer people than a human driver would, then... oops for the autonomous car. In reality, it’s going to be an absolute cluster of lawyers trying to convince jurys that yet another corner case was so simple that the autonomous car shouldn’t have run over that 3 year old running after a ball in the fog (and if Tesla had only used a certain type of lidar, this poor child would still be alive) Yes, legal frameworks/limitations will need to be established to keep every run over child from demanding a multi billion dollar settlement. Yes, it’s going to be dirty on both sides. I personally don’t believe Tesla’s “autonomous cars are 2x safer than human driven cars” sound bite spewed by Elon. I believe that for the primarily highway miles driven autonomously by Tesla, an equivalent unimpaired human driver on the same roads is an order (or many more) of magnitude safer, but Tesla is likely comparing against all drivers for all miles driven.

12 points by johnnyb_61820 7y ago

This is the standard tech industry mantra, the only difference is that this is software designed specifically to control devices that by design are able to cause significant harm. At some point you have to ask: is selling a product for a specific purpose ok, if you are also including a license that says it may not actually be able to be safely used for that purpose?

Fjolsvith 7y ago
Only if the jury says so.

jmpman 7y ago

The author seems quite spun up on this topic. I believe Elon is stating that the liability may land on the car owner’s insurance. During the presentation, Elon didn’t seem locked down on the specifics. Just as my own automobile insurance doesn’t apply when I’m driving for Uber or Lyft, I expect Tesla will need to provide insurance directly during the robotaxi usage. When I’m the occupant of the vehicle, I expect my own insurance will cover.

johnnyb_61820 7y ago
"I believe Elon is stating that the liability may land on the car owner’s insurance" There is never liability on insurance. Insurance is just a method of payment. It is possible that insurance will cover this, but that's irrelevant to the point.
- jmpman 7y ago
  Maybe I don’t understand your point on “never liability on insurance”, but I have automobile liability insurance. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/automobile-liability-insurance.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/automobile-liability-in... If your point is that someone is going to die by these autonomous cars, and someone should be jailed for it... that’s another discussion. In theory you’d want society to say that if the autonomous cars kill fewer people than a human driver would, then... oops for the autonomous car. In reality, it’s going to be an absolute cluster of lawyers trying to convince jurys that yet another corner case was so simple that the autonomous car shouldn’t have run over that 3 year old running after a ball in the fog (and if Tesla had only used a certain type of lidar, this poor child would still be alive) Yes, legal frameworks/limitations will need to be established to keep every run over child from demanding a multi billion dollar settlement. Yes, it’s going to be dirty on both sides. I personally don’t believe Tesla’s “autonomous cars are 2x safer than human driven cars” sound bite spewed by Elon. I believe that for the primarily highway miles driven autonomously by Tesla, an equivalent unimpaired human driver on the same roads is an order (or many more) of magnitude safer, but Tesla is likely comparing against all drivers for all miles driven.