4 ms·

Could be. I don't necessarily think it's fluff to identify what fascism looks like. Identification is interesting and you can learn from it. But I guess you cou

by beaner 7y ago

Could be. I don't necessarily think it's fluff to identify what fascism looks like. Identification is interesting and you can learn from it. But I guess you could say that simply knowing what fascism is, is insufficient for figuring out if we're on the path towards it.

jrochkind1 7y ago
I don't know if anything is truly 'sufficient' in the logical sense, but if you are familiar with the features of fascism, it of course helps you recognize it. There is lots of different theory on what fascism looks like, what the key commonalities/components of it are. With some overlap. This article is not too out of line with a lot of scholarship and theoretical work, but it isn't the only answer. Other things people often say characterizes fascist ideology is: * Fascism is "reactionary" in the sense of wanting to go back to an earlier time believed to have been better and more socially stable, while "radical" in the sense of wanting major changes to society for a "collective rebirth" to get back to that. * Fascists glorify power and violence, not only being willing to use it against their enemies or for their purposes, but believing engaging in violence makes you a better person/nation, that violence is good, and "natural" (especially for men). * Fascists generally demonize both "up" and "down" in social directions. Both the very rich ("Finance capital", "George Soros", whatever) and the poor are considered 'parasites' on the productive 'real workers' middle class. Being worried about "parasites" taking what "belongs to us" in general, feeling threatened that certain classes or kinds of people who are not "us" want to take what is rightfully "ours". * Of course fascists are extreme nationalists, believing there is an "us" and "them" on national membership boundaries (whether race or country), and that the "us" is under threat from the "them", and any means necessary are justifiable in defense. I dunno, but many of those who have been studying and paying attention to fascism are feeling some not great recognition these days about what they are seeing (not just in the U.S. either, but here in the U.S. yes). Normally fascism is also builds mass organizations, often with quasi-legal/paramilitary components. I am not sure we are seeing that yet. Matthew Lyons writes: "Fascism doesn't just terrorize and repress. It also inspires and mobilizes large masses of people around a vision of collective rebirth in a time of crisis. Building a mass movement outside traditional channels is central to fascism's bid to win state power. As a regime, fascism uses mass organizations and rituals to create a sense of participation and direct identification with the state. Fascism celebrates the nation, race, or cultural group as an organic community to which all other loyalties must be subordinated. In place of individual liberties or social justice, fascism offers its followers a culture of action, virility, heroic sacrifice, cathartic public spectacle, and being part of a vast social organism. " I think the ideology seems terrifying familiar, but I don't think we are seeing mass organizations like that. But the role of the internet is a weird one, that I wonder if to some extent substitutes for actual belonging to/participating in organizations in pre-internet times.
corey_moncure 7y ago
It's fluff because it doesn't actually examine any of its theses closely. The author's choice of words dismisses, prima facie, any possibility of sympathy for the people he describes and the legitimacy of their plight. Their fear is "exploited", not justified. They are "obsessed" with a "plot", not concerned about a pattern of events. They are "racist" regardless of the nature of their difference with the invaders.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  >"It's fluff because it doesn't actually examine any of its theses closely." Since you would like to see them being expanded upon, here's the piece that this is an excerpt from, happy reading - https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf However, it does say this right at the top of the page. You must have missed it in your hurry - >The very personal essay that this is an excerpt of is "Ur-Fascism"

by beaner 7y ago

jrochkind1 7y ago

I don't know if anything is truly 'sufficient' in the logical sense, but if you are familiar with the features of fascism, it of course helps you recognize it. There is lots of different theory on what fascism looks like, what the key commonalities/components of it are. With some overlap. This article is not too out of line with a lot of scholarship and theoretical work, but it isn't the only answer. Other things people often say characterizes fascist ideology is: * Fascism is "reactionary" in the sense of wanting to go back to an earlier time believed to have been better and more socially stable, while "radical" in the sense of wanting major changes to society for a "collective rebirth" to get back to that. * Fascists glorify power and violence, not only being willing to use it against their enemies or for their purposes, but believing engaging in violence makes you a better person/nation, that violence is good, and "natural" (especially for men). * Fascists generally demonize both "up" and "down" in social directions. Both the very rich ("Finance capital", "George Soros", whatever) and the poor are considered 'parasites' on the productive 'real workers' middle class. Being worried about "parasites" taking what "belongs to us" in general, feeling threatened that certain classes or kinds of people who are not "us" want to take what is rightfully "ours". * Of course fascists are extreme nationalists, believing there is an "us" and "them" on national membership boundaries (whether race or country), and that the "us" is under threat from the "them", and any means necessary are justifiable in defense. I dunno, but many of those who have been studying and paying attention to fascism are feeling some not great recognition these days about what they are seeing (not just in the U.S. either, but here in the U.S. yes). Normally fascism is also builds mass organizations, often with quasi-legal/paramilitary components. I am not sure we are seeing that yet. Matthew Lyons writes: "Fascism doesn't just terrorize and repress. It also inspires and mobilizes large masses of people around a vision of collective rebirth in a time of crisis. Building a mass movement outside traditional channels is central to fascism's bid to win state power. As a regime, fascism uses mass organizations and rituals to create a sense of participation and direct identification with the state. Fascism celebrates the nation, race, or cultural group as an organic community to which all other loyalties must be subordinated. In place of individual liberties or social justice, fascism offers its followers a culture of action, virility, heroic sacrifice, cathartic public spectacle, and being part of a vast social organism. " I think the ideology seems terrifying familiar, but I don't think we are seeing mass organizations like that. But the role of the internet is a weird one, that I wonder if to some extent substitutes for actual belonging to/participating in organizations in pre-internet times.

corey_moncure 7y ago

It's fluff because it doesn't actually examine any of its theses closely. The author's choice of words dismisses, prima facie, any possibility of sympathy for the people he describes and the legitimacy of their plight. Their fear is "exploited", not justified. They are "obsessed" with a "plot", not concerned about a pattern of events. They are "racist" regardless of the nature of their difference with the invaders.

inflatableDodo 7y ago
>"It's fluff because it doesn't actually examine any of its theses closely." Since you would like to see them being expanded upon, here's the piece that this is an excerpt from, happy reading - https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf However, it does say this right at the top of the page. You must have missed it in your hurry - >The very personal essay that this is an excerpt of is "Ur-Fascism"