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Abuse concerns and “does it need a blockchain” cynicism aside I find all of these “crypto” cloud computing projects fascinating. I highly recommend playing arou

Abuse concerns and “does it need a blockchain” cynicism aside I find all of these “crypto” cloud computing projects fascinating. I highly recommend playing around on their testnets. Storj and Filecoin are also competing in the storage space, and BitTorrent is vying to be a CDN alternative. SONM aims to be an EC2 competitor, and interestingly requires ID verification to participate in their testnet due to the clear abuse potential of unattributable internet-connected VMs. (which exist in plenty of other places anyways since at present date, hosting providers have no KYC requirements) Will the sharing economy extend to computing resources? I’ll stay tuned.

Taek 7y ago
Decentralized computing is a challenge because unlike storage, it's very expensive to encrypt computation. You see something like 10,000x slowdowns. With storage, we can encrypt and checksum everything client-side in a cryptographically secure manner, and we can have full faith that even though we are giving our data to someone else, they have no way to view the data or tamper with the data. If techniques like homomorphic encryption gain substantial speedups, I'm sure that we'll start to see decentralized/trustless computing, but for now you really need to be doing your outsourced computing with someone you can trust and someone who is regulated, because it's possible to act maliciously.
- wmf 7y ago
  Unless SGX works.
  - rjeli 7y ago
    SGX has always seemed like the Netflix DRM problem to me.. eventually, pixels have to show up on a screen somewhere, right? Am I mistaken in this line of thinking? Homomorphic encryption solves this, but it’s throwing an awful lot of performance out the window.
    - Taek 7y ago
      I think the idea behind SGX based cloud computing would be that you send encrypted data and code to the enclave, which then decrypts the data, does the computation, encrypts the result, and then returns the encrypted result. The enclave gets to see everything that's going on, but in theory nothing can view or corrupt what's going on inside of the enclave. I'm personally pretty skeptical that SGX is a secure platform, however if you do decide that SGX works and is trustworthy, it would be possible to outsource your computation in a mostly cost effective way to anyone who has an SGX enclave.
      - tech_man7 7y ago
        Yes, this is the idea. Enclave technology should improve over time, whether it's SGX or something else. And Golem is working with Intel, Texas A&M and others in creating an environment called Graphene (https://grapheneproject.io/ https://grapheneproject.io/) where applications can easily be run on SGX.
        tfha 7y ago
        Enclave defeating technology will improve over time as well. Things like scanners and lasers and emi detectors get better and better just as technologies for hiding from them do.
  - gnode 7y ago
    This isn't what SGX is for. SGX is designed to add a layer of security to protect against malicious code on the same machine, encrypting memory at rest such that its contents aren't compromised if a vulnerability allows access to it. It's not intended to support an untrusted computing platform like homomorphic encryption.
- fghtr 7y ago
  https://golem.network https://golem.network is the project to make decentralized computing possible. They already have beta version released.
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    Yea but afaik, they don't address data privacy. You should only deploy code that deals with public data.
  - bin0 7y ago
    This still leaves problems: 1. Now I have to trust two providers, each of which could have problems. 2. Now I have to pay for encryption, then pay for storage, and probably have higher ingress costs, too (I can probably trust AWS/GCP/Azure/Backblaze/whatever; not sure about random-blockchain-guy #67812).
pmlnr 7y ago
Storj was a brilliant idea then suddenly someone put blockchain into it.
- anonymous5133 7y ago
  You can use storj to host your files without using blockchain. I think they accept credit cards directly. Also storj is doing a lot to make sure only reliable hosts are allowed to continue to operate on the network. If you aren't serious about having a reliable hosting node then you'll eventually get booted from the network.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    > You can use storj to host your files without using blockchain Can you use storj to host anything at all, regardless of blockchain? As far as I can tell they don’t have a product in the market.
- PlaneSploit 7y ago
  Blockchain is just for payments, the actual object store doesn't use it
miguelmota 7y ago
Decentralized computing requires redundant computations for verification which seems like a waste for most applications and not to mention latency added to each request. I'm sure there's use cases for this that require more sophisticated compute than what smart contract platforms like Ethereum offer but I'm not sure what those are. If someone is being prohibited from using a cloud platform and needs to resort to a decentralized hosting platform, I can see them simply using a VPN and hosting the application on a different platform that's not censoring them. SONM requiring KYC for their decentralized platform sounds like an oxymoron.

Taek 7y ago

Decentralized computing is a challenge because unlike storage, it's very expensive to encrypt computation. You see something like 10,000x slowdowns. With storage, we can encrypt and checksum everything client-side in a cryptographically secure manner, and we can have full faith that even though we are giving our data to someone else, they have no way to view the data or tamper with the data. If techniques like homomorphic encryption gain substantial speedups, I'm sure that we'll start to see decentralized/trustless computing, but for now you really need to be doing your outsourced computing with someone you can trust and someone who is regulated, because it's possible to act maliciously.

wmf 7y ago
Unless SGX works.
- rjeli 7y ago
  SGX has always seemed like the Netflix DRM problem to me.. eventually, pixels have to show up on a screen somewhere, right? Am I mistaken in this line of thinking? Homomorphic encryption solves this, but it’s throwing an awful lot of performance out the window.
  - Taek 7y ago
    I think the idea behind SGX based cloud computing would be that you send encrypted data and code to the enclave, which then decrypts the data, does the computation, encrypts the result, and then returns the encrypted result. The enclave gets to see everything that's going on, but in theory nothing can view or corrupt what's going on inside of the enclave. I'm personally pretty skeptical that SGX is a secure platform, however if you do decide that SGX works and is trustworthy, it would be possible to outsource your computation in a mostly cost effective way to anyone who has an SGX enclave.
    - tech_man7 7y ago
      Yes, this is the idea. Enclave technology should improve over time, whether it's SGX or something else. And Golem is working with Intel, Texas A&M and others in creating an environment called Graphene (https://grapheneproject.io/ https://grapheneproject.io/) where applications can easily be run on SGX.
      - tfha 7y ago
        Enclave defeating technology will improve over time as well. Things like scanners and lasers and emi detectors get better and better just as technologies for hiding from them do.
- gnode 7y ago
  This isn't what SGX is for. SGX is designed to add a layer of security to protect against malicious code on the same machine, encrypting memory at rest such that its contents aren't compromised if a vulnerability allows access to it. It's not intended to support an untrusted computing platform like homomorphic encryption.
fghtr 7y ago
https://golem.network https://golem.network is the project to make decentralized computing possible. They already have beta version released.
- carlosdp 7y ago
  Yea but afaik, they don't address data privacy. You should only deploy code that deals with public data.
- bin0 7y ago
  This still leaves problems: 1. Now I have to trust two providers, each of which could have problems. 2. Now I have to pay for encryption, then pay for storage, and probably have higher ingress costs, too (I can probably trust AWS/GCP/Azure/Backblaze/whatever; not sure about random-blockchain-guy #67812).

pmlnr 7y ago

Storj was a brilliant idea then suddenly someone put blockchain into it.

anonymous5133 7y ago
You can use storj to host your files without using blockchain. I think they accept credit cards directly. Also storj is doing a lot to make sure only reliable hosts are allowed to continue to operate on the network. If you aren't serious about having a reliable hosting node then you'll eventually get booted from the network.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  > You can use storj to host your files without using blockchain Can you use storj to host anything at all, regardless of blockchain? As far as I can tell they don’t have a product in the market.
PlaneSploit 7y ago
Blockchain is just for payments, the actual object store doesn't use it

miguelmota 7y ago

Decentralized computing requires redundant computations for verification which seems like a waste for most applications and not to mention latency added to each request. I'm sure there's use cases for this that require more sophisticated compute than what smart contract platforms like Ethereum offer but I'm not sure what those are. If someone is being prohibited from using a cloud platform and needs to resort to a decentralized hosting platform, I can see them simply using a VPN and hosting the application on a different platform that's not censoring them. SONM requiring KYC for their decentralized platform sounds like an oxymoron.