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Completely agree that if it’s not accessible on any app then it’s not a podcast. I also would pay for a podcast app that could guarantee that the audio file was

Completely agree that if it’s not accessible on any app then it’s not a podcast. I also would pay for a podcast app that could guarantee that the audio file was the same for all listeners.

snailmailman 7y ago
I wish the later could be possible. I have no idea how podcast-ads work but lately i noticed some podcasts giving me seemingly location-dependent ads. (about something in a nearby major city) either everyone is getting advertisements for a very dallas targeted ad, or are the podcast companies making several versions of the podcast and serving different ones to different people? sounds like a lot of extra work to me, but I suppose its not hard to automate stitching a few ads into an audio file.
- mattferderer 7y ago
  The guys on .NET Rocks have talked a bit about this & being able to tweak & update ads over time. One big reason is people still listen to their old shows & they would like those ads to still have value. I believe the host of your podcast files that people download will send different audio files to different people with different ads targeted in.
- bscphil 7y ago
  I agree - actually I've gotten into the habit of trying to track down the original RSS feed for each podcast I listen to. Often the link shared by the podcaster will be to rehosters like Google Play or iTunes, or lesser-known services, that have tracking and probably the ability to insert custom ads. The worst is when they make the elitist move of only linking iTunes, making their podcast unlistenable (on mobile at least) to most people worldwide. But most of the time the original file is getting pulled by the rehoster from an unprotected RSS feed, and these can be easy to find. You can get the RSS feeds for Soundcloud, as an example. Others are hosted on Libsyn.com, and you can often find them by searching for the podcast name and "site:libsyn.com" in the search engine of your choice. That said, I don't listen to podcasts enough any more to say whether this is a universal solution at all. Actually, the fact that podcasts have unblockable ads is one of the main reasons I no longer bother.
  - chrisrhoden 7y ago
    > podcasts have unblockable ads As far as I know, they are also the last digital ads with a non-disableable skip button, so you win some and lose some.
  - ufo 7y ago
    Some soundcloud podcasts don't have,an RSS feed and,are only listenable withthe soundcloud app. These are the worst.
    - bscphil 7y ago
      Do you have an example? I'd like to look into it.
      - ufo 7y ago
        Oops, I got the "S"s mixed up. The podcast that I couldn't find the RSS feed for was on Spotify, not Soundcound.
  - filmgirlcw 7y ago
    There’s not a universal solution, in part because many times the dynamic ad-insertion is something the podcasters themselves want (or it’s one of the terms of using a certain podcast host). I have a podcast with a podcasting network that sells our ads for us. To my knowledge, they don’t do any dynamic ad insertions for older episodes (though if they did, I wouldn’t necessarily be upset, provided they were inserted the right way), but plenty of podcasting networks DO do that and it’s something the creator’s endorse because it means they are getting paid more money. There are third-party podcast apps that rehost feeds and may add their own stuff to the content — that’s another issue entirely — but most dynamic ad-insertion stuff is happening with the permission/consent of the people that make the podcast, either explicitly or as terms they agreed to in order to get hosted/have ads sold on their behalf.
    - bscphil 7y ago
      That's a fair point. Whatever service is originally hosting the content might well be doing the dynamic ad insertions too. My assumption is that in at least some cases while the ads are desired by the podcaster, they aren't inserted until a later stage by an aggregator. So there's some hope of getting at the original source. At least, when I've been able to track down sources, they seem to be mostly hosted on generic CDNs, which gives me some hope that the same file is being served to all listeners.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  It’s called dynamic ad insertion. Online radio stations use it all the time for localized ads based on IP address. Did some work for a set of radio stations in the way of building a diagnostic web player for the metadata in HLS streams debugging their new ad system. (Using HLS.js which I have to say I’m grateful for as it’s a brilliant library) So they don’t have to stitch together one new audio file per local but place metadata markers in the audio file metadata that prompts ad insertion. These usually have a marker for length and the systems handle number of plays and placement spots. Don’t know as much about that end. HLS being a chunked format would allow the files to be stitched back together on the client end as well with ads in place. Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re doing this. Also wouldn’t be surprised if many Podcasts are broadcast via HLS as it’s native in Apple software and Apple devices. Someone else with more knowledge would have to confirm or deny that, though.
  - chrisrhoden 7y ago
    No HLS in podcasting because of its legacy but just-in-time building of audio files with some caching is plenty fast. Some folks who do this use old internet radio streaming technology with the max buffer size set to infinity, but most of the time it's operating with plain old mp3s.
    - 52-6F-62 7y ago
      For sure? Not sure that HLS is bound to AAC (though that’s the standard) as it’s just the container format. Could be transmitted MP3 10s chunks split and added metadata encoded by the distributor. Either way if you’re right about the JIT and buffering it would be trivial to stitch some ad markers in at that point. But I’m sure independents/lower-volume shows at the very least operate like you’ve said. Makes sense.
      - chrisrhoden 7y ago
        yes, for sure. lower volume shows mostly don't use DAI. the big ones use the systems I described. The podcasting standard does not allow for HLS enclosures. source: I have worked in podcasting for almost 10 years.
chrisrhoden 7y ago
Real question - is it dynamic ads that bug you, or the implication that there is some personal tracking motivating the dynamic ads (rather than, say, calendar based ad buys or impression limits)?
- Swenrekcah 7y ago
  Neither. It’s the implication that the show I’m listening to might be subtly varying their content based on whatever metric. Imagine the next cambridge analytica making a podcast app and doing their facebook shenanigans with the news show you trust. I don’t care about the ads much but they’re impossible to distinguish from content, for those who would wish to do this.
  - chrisrhoden 7y ago
    That's a novel concern, at least to me - and it's not clear to me that we have seen any examples of _content modification_ based on psychographics. Curation and promotion based on targeting seems plenty pernicious at least at the moment.
    - babyloneleven 7y ago
      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/29/facebook-users-emotions-news-feeds https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/29/facebook-... is concerning
gsich 7y ago
Similar view: If there is no RSS feed then it's not a podcast.

Completely agree that if it’s not accessible on any app then it’s not a podcast. I also would pay for a podcast app that could guarantee that the audio file was the same for all listeners.

snailmailman 7y ago

I wish the later could be possible. I have no idea how podcast-ads work but lately i noticed some podcasts giving me seemingly location-dependent ads. (about something in a nearby major city) either everyone is getting advertisements for a very dallas targeted ad, or are the podcast companies making several versions of the podcast and serving different ones to different people? sounds like a lot of extra work to me, but I suppose its not hard to automate stitching a few ads into an audio file.

mattferderer 7y ago
The guys on .NET Rocks have talked a bit about this & being able to tweak & update ads over time. One big reason is people still listen to their old shows & they would like those ads to still have value. I believe the host of your podcast files that people download will send different audio files to different people with different ads targeted in.
bscphil 7y ago
I agree - actually I've gotten into the habit of trying to track down the original RSS feed for each podcast I listen to. Often the link shared by the podcaster will be to rehosters like Google Play or iTunes, or lesser-known services, that have tracking and probably the ability to insert custom ads. The worst is when they make the elitist move of only linking iTunes, making their podcast unlistenable (on mobile at least) to most people worldwide. But most of the time the original file is getting pulled by the rehoster from an unprotected RSS feed, and these can be easy to find. You can get the RSS feeds for Soundcloud, as an example. Others are hosted on Libsyn.com, and you can often find them by searching for the podcast name and "site:libsyn.com" in the search engine of your choice. That said, I don't listen to podcasts enough any more to say whether this is a universal solution at all. Actually, the fact that podcasts have unblockable ads is one of the main reasons I no longer bother.
- chrisrhoden 7y ago
  > podcasts have unblockable ads As far as I know, they are also the last digital ads with a non-disableable skip button, so you win some and lose some.
- ufo 7y ago
  Some soundcloud podcasts don't have,an RSS feed and,are only listenable withthe soundcloud app. These are the worst.
  - bscphil 7y ago
    Do you have an example? I'd like to look into it.
    - ufo 7y ago
      Oops, I got the "S"s mixed up. The podcast that I couldn't find the RSS feed for was on Spotify, not Soundcound.
- filmgirlcw 7y ago
  There’s not a universal solution, in part because many times the dynamic ad-insertion is something the podcasters themselves want (or it’s one of the terms of using a certain podcast host). I have a podcast with a podcasting network that sells our ads for us. To my knowledge, they don’t do any dynamic ad insertions for older episodes (though if they did, I wouldn’t necessarily be upset, provided they were inserted the right way), but plenty of podcasting networks DO do that and it’s something the creator’s endorse because it means they are getting paid more money. There are third-party podcast apps that rehost feeds and may add their own stuff to the content — that’s another issue entirely — but most dynamic ad-insertion stuff is happening with the permission/consent of the people that make the podcast, either explicitly or as terms they agreed to in order to get hosted/have ads sold on their behalf.
  - bscphil 7y ago
    That's a fair point. Whatever service is originally hosting the content might well be doing the dynamic ad insertions too. My assumption is that in at least some cases while the ads are desired by the podcaster, they aren't inserted until a later stage by an aggregator. So there's some hope of getting at the original source. At least, when I've been able to track down sources, they seem to be mostly hosted on generic CDNs, which gives me some hope that the same file is being served to all listeners.
52-6F-62 7y ago
It’s called dynamic ad insertion. Online radio stations use it all the time for localized ads based on IP address. Did some work for a set of radio stations in the way of building a diagnostic web player for the metadata in HLS streams debugging their new ad system. (Using HLS.js which I have to say I’m grateful for as it’s a brilliant library) So they don’t have to stitch together one new audio file per local but place metadata markers in the audio file metadata that prompts ad insertion. These usually have a marker for length and the systems handle number of plays and placement spots. Don’t know as much about that end. HLS being a chunked format would allow the files to be stitched back together on the client end as well with ads in place. Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re doing this. Also wouldn’t be surprised if many Podcasts are broadcast via HLS as it’s native in Apple software and Apple devices. Someone else with more knowledge would have to confirm or deny that, though.
- chrisrhoden 7y ago
  No HLS in podcasting because of its legacy but just-in-time building of audio files with some caching is plenty fast. Some folks who do this use old internet radio streaming technology with the max buffer size set to infinity, but most of the time it's operating with plain old mp3s.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    For sure? Not sure that HLS is bound to AAC (though that’s the standard) as it’s just the container format. Could be transmitted MP3 10s chunks split and added metadata encoded by the distributor. Either way if you’re right about the JIT and buffering it would be trivial to stitch some ad markers in at that point. But I’m sure independents/lower-volume shows at the very least operate like you’ve said. Makes sense.
    - chrisrhoden 7y ago
      yes, for sure. lower volume shows mostly don't use DAI. the big ones use the systems I described. The podcasting standard does not allow for HLS enclosures. source: I have worked in podcasting for almost 10 years.

chrisrhoden 7y ago

Real question - is it dynamic ads that bug you, or the implication that there is some personal tracking motivating the dynamic ads (rather than, say, calendar based ad buys or impression limits)?

Swenrekcah 7y ago
Neither. It’s the implication that the show I’m listening to might be subtly varying their content based on whatever metric. Imagine the next cambridge analytica making a podcast app and doing their facebook shenanigans with the news show you trust. I don’t care about the ads much but they’re impossible to distinguish from content, for those who would wish to do this.
- chrisrhoden 7y ago
  That's a novel concern, at least to me - and it's not clear to me that we have seen any examples of _content modification_ based on psychographics. Curation and promotion based on targeting seems plenty pernicious at least at the moment.
  - babyloneleven 7y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/29/facebook-users-emotions-news-feeds https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/29/facebook-... is concerning

gsich 7y ago

Similar view: If there is no RSS feed then it's not a podcast.