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I believe that censorship resistance is a key value proposition for decentralized file storage. So its agnostic handling of illegal content is a feature, not a

I believe that censorship resistance is a key value proposition for decentralized file storage. So its agnostic handling of illegal content is a feature, not a bug.

yazan94 7y ago
In the spirit of blockchain and decentralization, I think you're right. But practically, explaining that to the authorities will probably not be a pleasant experience if they manage to find cp or other illegal data on your hard drive.
- Ajedi32 7y ago
  The data is encrypted by the client, so that's theoretically impossible. Neither you nor the authorities have the ability to determine what file fragments (whole flies aren't stored; just fragments) are on your PC.
  - modeless 7y ago
    It's not theoretically impossible for law enforcement to discover the encryption keys to some illegal files on someone's computer. Then they could go around arresting people who host the chunks. Of course those people wouldn't have known about those files in particular, but they were knowingly running software that enables hosting illegal files. A judge would have to decide if that's OK.
    - Ajedi32 7y ago
      Doesn't AWS also have the same problem? Someone could upload encrypted illegal content, then later law enforcement could discover the key. Why hasn't AWS gotten in trouble for that yet?
      - modeless 7y ago
        No large cloud provider allows anonymous usage. They take down content on request and assist law enforcement in catching the non-anonymous people doing illegal things on their platforms.
        Ajedi32 7y ago
        Okay, bad example. AWS is a paid service so obviously they have more information about their users than most. What about Dropbox or OneDrive? Both of those services allow files to be stored and shared with no requirement to identify yourself when you're creating an account, beyond providing an email address.
        txcwpalpha 7y ago
        Both Dropbox and OneDrive scan your content to determine if it matches known illegal content (be it illegal pornography, DRM content, etc) and will remove it and remove you from their service. See https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna If someone pre-encrypts data and then uploads that to Dropbox, it gets more complicated and AFAIK involves more of monitoring the IP addresses that things are coming from and/or being shared to.
        lmpostor 7y ago
        Same argument for Bitcoin, cash etc. You have a thousand degrees of slippery slope in what constitutes "enable". Does paying your workers in cash for tips enable tax evasion? Also, I'm not sure what scenario in which you would be able to find the encryption key, yet not have access to the wallet controlling the contracts? Even if you did, I'm not sure why hosts could not assist in cancelling contracts in a similar fashion to cloud providers taking down content on request.
    - Taek 7y ago
      US has strong third party protection laws. If it doesn't, HN could be held accountable for illegal files that were converted to base64 and then posted in the comments. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but as a third party you are not responsible for illegal data uploaded to your server/machine so long as you are not aware that it is illegal data. Once you are informed that there is illegal data on your machine, you have 24 hours to remove it.
  - wmf 7y ago
    Someone could upload data to you then later reveal the keys. If the authorities have the metadata and keys they can determine who is storing the data.
  - empath75 7y ago
    So basically Jeffrey Epstein gives you a CD full of encrypted files and asks you to hold on to them for him? Shouldn't be any problem with that.
pradn 7y ago
I wonder about whether it's right to be renting your storage space away without knowing what it's being used for. I don't want to directly contribute toward bad things happening.
- arbol 7y ago
  We need to move away from centralised internet. You don't have any real proof that Company XYZ aren't using your money to do bad things. You would stop participating if it turned out the Sia network was mostly used for bad things. In the same vein, you may choose not to use Amazon because it is unfairly treating warehouse workers.
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  It's fine then because you'd only be indirectly contributing. Just like paying your taxes or buying fast food and clothes.

I believe that censorship resistance is a key value proposition for decentralized file storage. So its agnostic handling of illegal content is a feature, not a bug.

yazan94 7y ago

In the spirit of blockchain and decentralization, I think you're right. But practically, explaining that to the authorities will probably not be a pleasant experience if they manage to find cp or other illegal data on your hard drive.

Ajedi32 7y ago
The data is encrypted by the client, so that's theoretically impossible. Neither you nor the authorities have the ability to determine what file fragments (whole flies aren't stored; just fragments) are on your PC.
- modeless 7y ago
  It's not theoretically impossible for law enforcement to discover the encryption keys to some illegal files on someone's computer. Then they could go around arresting people who host the chunks. Of course those people wouldn't have known about those files in particular, but they were knowingly running software that enables hosting illegal files. A judge would have to decide if that's OK.
  - Ajedi32 7y ago
    Doesn't AWS also have the same problem? Someone could upload encrypted illegal content, then later law enforcement could discover the key. Why hasn't AWS gotten in trouble for that yet?
    - modeless 7y ago
      No large cloud provider allows anonymous usage. They take down content on request and assist law enforcement in catching the non-anonymous people doing illegal things on their platforms.
      - Ajedi32 7y ago
        Okay, bad example. AWS is a paid service so obviously they have more information about their users than most. What about Dropbox or OneDrive? Both of those services allow files to be stored and shared with no requirement to identify yourself when you're creating an account, beyond providing an email address.
        txcwpalpha 7y ago
        Both Dropbox and OneDrive scan your content to determine if it matches known illegal content (be it illegal pornography, DRM content, etc) and will remove it and remove you from their service. See https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna If someone pre-encrypts data and then uploads that to Dropbox, it gets more complicated and AFAIK involves more of monitoring the IP addresses that things are coming from and/or being shared to.
      - lmpostor 7y ago
        Same argument for Bitcoin, cash etc. You have a thousand degrees of slippery slope in what constitutes "enable". Does paying your workers in cash for tips enable tax evasion? Also, I'm not sure what scenario in which you would be able to find the encryption key, yet not have access to the wallet controlling the contracts? Even if you did, I'm not sure why hosts could not assist in cancelling contracts in a similar fashion to cloud providers taking down content on request.
  - Taek 7y ago
    US has strong third party protection laws. If it doesn't, HN could be held accountable for illegal files that were converted to base64 and then posted in the comments. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but as a third party you are not responsible for illegal data uploaded to your server/machine so long as you are not aware that it is illegal data. Once you are informed that there is illegal data on your machine, you have 24 hours to remove it.
- wmf 7y ago
  Someone could upload data to you then later reveal the keys. If the authorities have the metadata and keys they can determine who is storing the data.
- empath75 7y ago
  So basically Jeffrey Epstein gives you a CD full of encrypted files and asks you to hold on to them for him? Shouldn't be any problem with that.

pradn 7y ago

I wonder about whether it's right to be renting your storage space away without knowing what it's being used for. I don't want to directly contribute toward bad things happening.

arbol 7y ago
We need to move away from centralised internet. You don't have any real proof that Company XYZ aren't using your money to do bad things. You would stop participating if it turned out the Sia network was mostly used for bad things. In the same vein, you may choose not to use Amazon because it is unfairly treating warehouse workers.
brokenmachine 7y ago
It's fine then because you'd only be indirectly contributing. Just like paying your taxes or buying fast food and clothes.