4 ms·

"fare evasion" is a fictional concept in any city where the massively subsidized automobile culture exists: fuel cost + pollution externality, parking and roads

by papln 7y ago

"fare evasion" is a fictional concept in any city where the massively subsidized automobile culture exists: fuel cost + pollution externality, parking and roads giveaway of real estate.

kiliantics 7y ago
I think easiest and preferable would just be to get rid of fares altogether. I really like how this group approaches the issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planka.nu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planka.nu
simonbyrne 7y ago
Additionally the language and penalties for fare evasion often don't match that of say parking tickets, which I would put as roughly similar in terms of moral violations (i.e. taking advantage of a common good, but not endangering the safety of others, like say speeding).
rayiner 7y ago
The math doesn’t really work out for your argument. For the DC metro, for example, the cost is about $1 per passenger mile. https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/30030.pdf https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/300.... Fare revenue brings that down to a $0.53 cent per mile subsidy. One calculation of driving subsidies (relying on various studies that estimate the cost of parking, pollution, etc.) brings the driving subsidy to about $0.43 per passenger mile: https://ggwash.org/view/10891/funding-amtrak-is-more-cost-effective-than-subsidizing-roads https://ggwash.org/view/10891/funding-amtrak-is-more-cost-ef.... (That’s from an urbanist, pro-transit website.) Electric cars cut that by more than half. (The direct subsidy for driving is just $0.02 cents per passenger mile.) So if you didn’t have far revenue, each passenger mile of subway would receive about 4x the subsidy of a passenger mile of electric car travel. As it is, the subsidy is slightly higher for the subway than a gasoline car.
- papln 7y ago
  Increasing ridership (at any time except peak) would lower the cost per passenger mile, at trivial additional cost. would. Does that $0.43 calculation include the effects of reduced ridership due to auto subsidy? I don't see thatin th ggwash article. Nor do I see a line item in the DOT info for the economic value generated by transit but 0% captured by the transit system (as constasted against Tokyo where the real estate system is part of the transit economic model.)

by papln 7y ago

"fare evasion" is a fictional concept in any city where the massively subsidized automobile culture exists: fuel cost + pollution externality, parking and roads giveaway of real estate.

kiliantics 7y ago

I think easiest and preferable would just be to get rid of fares altogether. I really like how this group approaches the issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planka.nu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planka.nu

simonbyrne 7y ago

Additionally the language and penalties for fare evasion often don't match that of say parking tickets, which I would put as roughly similar in terms of moral violations (i.e. taking advantage of a common good, but not endangering the safety of others, like say speeding).

rayiner 7y ago

The math doesn’t really work out for your argument. For the DC metro, for example, the cost is about $1 per passenger mile. https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/30030.pdf https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/300.... Fare revenue brings that down to a $0.53 cent per mile subsidy. One calculation of driving subsidies (relying on various studies that estimate the cost of parking, pollution, etc.) brings the driving subsidy to about $0.43 per passenger mile: https://ggwash.org/view/10891/funding-amtrak-is-more-cost-effective-than-subsidizing-roads https://ggwash.org/view/10891/funding-amtrak-is-more-cost-ef.... (That’s from an urbanist, pro-transit website.) Electric cars cut that by more than half. (The direct subsidy for driving is just $0.02 cents per passenger mile.) So if you didn’t have far revenue, each passenger mile of subway would receive about 4x the subsidy of a passenger mile of electric car travel. As it is, the subsidy is slightly higher for the subway than a gasoline car.

papln 7y ago
Increasing ridership (at any time except peak) would lower the cost per passenger mile, at trivial additional cost. would. Does that $0.43 calculation include the effects of reduced ridership due to auto subsidy? I don't see thatin th ggwash article. Nor do I see a line item in the DOT info for the economic value generated by transit but 0% captured by the transit system (as constasted against Tokyo where the real estate system is part of the transit economic model.)