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> On a final note, Tesla’s bug bounty program is fantastic. They provide a safe haven for researchers who are in good-faith trying to hack their cars. If you ac
by inlined 7y ago
> On a final note, Tesla’s bug bounty program is fantastic. They provide a safe haven for researchers who are in good-faith trying to hack their cars. If you accidentally brick one, they’ll even offer support in attempting to fix it.
This is an amazingly open and refreshing policy!
- hanniabu 7y agoDoes this mean you can legally mod your car under the guise of hacking it?
- whatshisface 7y agoIt's not illegal to have a NO2 factory in your garage, it's illegal to drive it on the roads. A good-faith emissions control hacking would probably not involve long-distance highway driving or racing.
- hanniabu 7y agoI was thinking you wouldn't have to tell Tesla this, but it's a good point because the car is connected so they would know if you were driving it or not.
- aphextim 7y agoMaybe if you only drive in a private property and not public roads. Probably like aftermarket modifications currently.
- aphextim 7y agoThis topic made me think of a funny old video of a farmer who put a turbo on his tractor. Probably illegal to drive this on any public road, however on his own property/private roads he is having a blast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZZpAO0jP7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZZpAO0jP7E
- fencepost 7y agoAlso some gearing changes most likely. I'd want a lot more roll cage than he has on there.
- mindslight 7y agoWhat is with this latent assumption in this thread that DIY activity is a priori illegal? Of course it's legal to mod your car under the guise of hacking. Just like it's legal to mod your car under the guise of throwing a birthday party. The "guise" is irrelevant! There's obviously legal nuance involving speed, safety, etc. But propagating a cultural assumption of "doing something weird must be illegal" is frightening.
- mrguyorama 7y agoIt comes down to DRM and BS in the software industry. Anything with a EULA usually disallows you from doing anything "unauthorized" with it, and Teslas have a lot of software and EULA
- mindslight 7y agoI will agree that software authoritarianism is a big source of ambiguous fear being pushed onto other endeavors, but a contractual dispute is a far cry from "illegal". And yes the broken-ass DMCA can lift some of that into the realm of illegal, but even that is practically unenforceable beyond a mere chilling effect on publishing.
- brokenmachine 7y ago>but even that is practically unenforceable beyond a mere chilling effect on publishing Not with Tesla recording remotely what "owners" do with their cars.
- driverdan 7y agoModding cars is already legal.
- gambiting 7y agoI mean, you need to expand this statement, because with just those 5 words it's blatantly untrue. There's a whole load of mods allowed by my insurance and I'm sure you'd consider most of them "modding" - the law also has no opinion on most of them unless they start changing the emissions of the car(in which case that's still not the end of the world, you can get the car re-certified for the new emissions figure). Edit: ignore me, I apparently cannot read
- driverdan 7y agoYou're being pedantic. Saying "modding cars is legal" doesn't mean it's unrestricted. Since when do insurance companies approve car mods? And what does that have to do with something being legal? The only federal legal restrictions are on emissions equipment and safety equipment like seat belts and airbags. Some states have additional laws like tint limits and exhaust sound limits.
- gambiting 7y agoWait, I either misread his comment, or it was changed after I replied - I was replying with the assumption that he said "modding is already illegal". And any mods have to be reported to your insurer in the UK, even if it's just changing rims or putting on non-standard size tyres - failing to do so might get your claim denied if you ever file one.
- FireBeyond 7y ago* Subject to Tesla's definition of "good faith". Another hacker who discovered references to the Model 3 in his car before its announcement: * had his vehicle firmware downgraded to a version that contained no such references * had his vehicle blocked from receiving further firmware updates * had his vehicles ethernet port disabled * [deleted] caught some commentary from Musk about his hacking behavior put himself, and other drivers at risk.[/deleted]
- gowld 7y agoTesla and send a custom update that breaks your specific car that you bought?
- FireBeyond 7y agoThey would call it "protecting their IP", rather than "breaking", but yes. Though I suppose it's not technically "breaking" but downgrading.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoYou are entitled to the software provided with the vehicle at time of purchase, no more. Tesla software is Tesla IP. Would you dump your company's Github repos to customers? If not, why would Tesla wanting to tightly control their firmware and its contents be different? I have yet to run across a license agreement when code is provided to a customer that allows reverse engineering or disassembly. I do disagree with the decision to disable ethernet ports on an owner's product.
- FireBeyond 7y ago> You are entitled to the software provided with the vehicle at time of purchase, no more. And is the company entitled to reach into your device and remove the software provided and substitute it with an older version?
- 7y ago
- EdwardDiego 7y agoI love that we're living in a world where you can accidentally brick your car. The future, man, the future.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoAs an owner of a 1974 Mini Clubman, I can assure you that the ability to "brick" your car by tampering with it is not a new concept...
- vanderZwan 7y agoI don't. Especially if it can be bricked through the internet in the middle of driving at high speed.