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Have you considered that they vigorously deny things because they are not true? If even a fraction of the negative things about Tesla in the press were true t

Have you considered that they vigorously deny things because they are not true? If even a fraction of the negative things about Tesla in the press were true then their cars would be falling apart on the streets and the company would be failing from low demand. In reality buyers love the cars and they just broke their delivery record again last quarter.

clouddrover 7y ago
Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/2018/10/consumer_reports_annual_reliability_survey_tesla_and_other_domestic_brands_take_big_steps_backwards_in_rankings11/ https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-thinks-it-will-school-toyota-on-lean-manufacturing-fixing-model-3-launch-would-be-a-start/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2-line-the-most-flexible-line-in-the-world https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2... There's no point in ignoring Tesla's problems. It's better to be objective about it. If you want to buy a Tesla you should go in clear-eyed about the reliability issues.
- tzakrajs 7y ago
  And that’s not even talking about how many cars they have bricked with over the air updates (probably thousands) leaving their owners stranded in the morning.
  - SEJeff 7y ago
    Source? I've had this happen to me once, but it was due to a battery fault (in the 12V battery amusingly, not the main battery that powers the car) stemming from some arse in a Jeep that hit me the week prior. Tesla sent a "ranger" out who fixed it in my garage in a few hours. Try that with your toyota!
    - tzakrajs 7y ago
      Use Google there are too many first hand accounts on Reddit and Twitter to source here. Talk to people who own Teslas and they will bitch about their experience. Tesla annoys their customers constantly with things like: inaccurate battery charge indicators, no support for CarPlay or Android Auto, updates breaking functionality in their cars, promises for self driving which never materialize, and much more. I am sure I will hear more at lunch.
      - la_barba 7y ago
        If Tesla is making such shitty cars, how do you explain why more and more people are buying them?
        SEJeff 7y ago
        I'm waiting for him to pivot to Tesla soon going bankrupt. This is a sad script I've seen play out over and over again. Just about every single time, it is just FUD. Tesla has plenty of problems, but bricking thousands of cars on OTA update isn't one of them. I've had my Model 3 since Dec 2018 and have done plenty of updates. One of them did brick my car, but it turned out to be a fault in the 12V battery. They had it fixed in no time directly in my garage. I was blown away by their service although it did take them several weeks to get the seatbelt tensioners when someone hit me head on. They've supposedly fixed that since, but I dunno. These are not unlike growing pains in a service that is in hyper growth mode. You'll find problems like this, address them, and continue on.
      - SEJeff 7y ago
        So I should talk to myself, who owns a Model 3 AWD LR? I love it and anecdotally entirely shot down your FUD.
      - Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
        > Use Google there are too many first hand accounts on Reddit and Twitter to source here. You're the one claiming that OTA updates have bricked thousands of cars. The onus is on YOU to supply a source to backup your claim.
- Retric 7y ago
  From that link: Model 3 sedan has “Average” predicted reliability based on owner feedback. That’s not great, but also not poor reliability. Their high end models do seem to be having issues, but the reliability standards for cars are extremely high these days.
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    Car fleet operators find Teslas are not commercially viable because they have too many defects and the repair time is too slow: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27725/tesla-fleet-company-struggles-raise-questions-about-robotaxi-plans https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27725/tesla-fleet-company-stru...
  - bduerst 7y ago
    The bumpers were literally falling off of Tesla Model 3s: https://jalopnik.com/bumper-falls-off-brand-new-tesla-model-3-after-30-minut-1828306917 https://jalopnik.com/bumper-falls-off-brand-new-tesla-model-...
    - NeutronStar 7y ago
      If all you can find is some year old complaint about the first cars out of their new production line have some issues, then can we say Tesla still have those issues, and has Tesla ignored those complaints at all?
- jayd16 7y ago
  But Teslas also have the highest customer satisfaction: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/2013/11/my-entry-2/ https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... Even if reliability is statistically poor there must be something about the particulars that keeps them afloat. Perhaps the non-essentials are unreliable or perhaps Tesla is able to succeed by cutting corners on things that have been traditionally important but aren't actually important to consumers.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    Or perhaps they’re still so supply-constrained that they haven’t run out of fanboys. Or perhaps the car is so expensive and eco-friendly than it is more valuable as a combination Veblen good and virtue signal than as a reliable source of transportation.
    - ajross 7y ago
      > Or perhaps they’re still so supply-constrained that they haven’t run out of fanboys Tesla is approaching half a million cars sold in a year now. If your contention is that they have a problem because hundreds of thousands of drivers are deluded fanboys willing to overlook all their faults... I don't think it says what you think it does about the company.
      - philwelch 7y ago
        It might wear off if the cars are shoddily built and will not be reliable in the long term.
        ajross 7y ago
        Now you've stacked up two hypotheticals to counter the point, though. That's might be true. It also might be true that the cars are of, on balance, very tolerable quality and that maintenance issues just aren't a driving factor in driver satisfaction. They're cars. Everyone loves their cars.
- travisoneill1 7y ago
  Being objective about it would be the press paying the same amount of attention to it as equivalent mistakes of other car companies, which is none. Minor Tesla quality issues seem to get press on par with the VW diesel scandal.

clouddrover 7y ago

Teslas do have poor reliability: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/2018/10/consumer_reports_annual_reliability_survey_tesla_and_other_domestic_brands_take_big_steps_backwards_in_rankings11/ https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... And Tesla has cut corners with engineering decisions: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Musk wants Tesla to out-Toyota Toyota, but it hasn't yet and probably won't: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-thinks-it-will-school-toyota-on-lean-manufacturing-fixing-model-3-launch-would-be-a-start/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2018/02/16/tesla-th... https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2-line-the-most-flexible-line-in-the-world https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2... There's no point in ignoring Tesla's problems. It's better to be objective about it. If you want to buy a Tesla you should go in clear-eyed about the reliability issues.

tzakrajs 7y ago
And that’s not even talking about how many cars they have bricked with over the air updates (probably thousands) leaving their owners stranded in the morning.
- SEJeff 7y ago
  Source? I've had this happen to me once, but it was due to a battery fault (in the 12V battery amusingly, not the main battery that powers the car) stemming from some arse in a Jeep that hit me the week prior. Tesla sent a "ranger" out who fixed it in my garage in a few hours. Try that with your toyota!
  - tzakrajs 7y ago
    Use Google there are too many first hand accounts on Reddit and Twitter to source here. Talk to people who own Teslas and they will bitch about their experience. Tesla annoys their customers constantly with things like: inaccurate battery charge indicators, no support for CarPlay or Android Auto, updates breaking functionality in their cars, promises for self driving which never materialize, and much more. I am sure I will hear more at lunch.
    - la_barba 7y ago
      If Tesla is making such shitty cars, how do you explain why more and more people are buying them?
      - SEJeff 7y ago
        I'm waiting for him to pivot to Tesla soon going bankrupt. This is a sad script I've seen play out over and over again. Just about every single time, it is just FUD. Tesla has plenty of problems, but bricking thousands of cars on OTA update isn't one of them. I've had my Model 3 since Dec 2018 and have done plenty of updates. One of them did brick my car, but it turned out to be a fault in the 12V battery. They had it fixed in no time directly in my garage. I was blown away by their service although it did take them several weeks to get the seatbelt tensioners when someone hit me head on. They've supposedly fixed that since, but I dunno. These are not unlike growing pains in a service that is in hyper growth mode. You'll find problems like this, address them, and continue on.
    - SEJeff 7y ago
      So I should talk to myself, who owns a Model 3 AWD LR? I love it and anecdotally entirely shot down your FUD.
    - Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
      > Use Google there are too many first hand accounts on Reddit and Twitter to source here. You're the one claiming that OTA updates have bricked thousands of cars. The onus is on YOU to supply a source to backup your claim.
Retric 7y ago
From that link: Model 3 sedan has “Average” predicted reliability based on owner feedback. That’s not great, but also not poor reliability. Their high end models do seem to be having issues, but the reliability standards for cars are extremely high these days.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  Car fleet operators find Teslas are not commercially viable because they have too many defects and the repair time is too slow: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27725/tesla-fleet-company-struggles-raise-questions-about-robotaxi-plans https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27725/tesla-fleet-company-stru...
- bduerst 7y ago
  The bumpers were literally falling off of Tesla Model 3s: https://jalopnik.com/bumper-falls-off-brand-new-tesla-model-3-after-30-minut-1828306917 https://jalopnik.com/bumper-falls-off-brand-new-tesla-model-...
  - NeutronStar 7y ago
    If all you can find is some year old complaint about the first cars out of their new production line have some issues, then can we say Tesla still have those issues, and has Tesla ignored those complaints at all?
jayd16 7y ago
But Teslas also have the highest customer satisfaction: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/2013/11/my-entry-2/ https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... Even if reliability is statistically poor there must be something about the particulars that keeps them afloat. Perhaps the non-essentials are unreliable or perhaps Tesla is able to succeed by cutting corners on things that have been traditionally important but aren't actually important to consumers.
- philwelch 7y ago
  Or perhaps they’re still so supply-constrained that they haven’t run out of fanboys. Or perhaps the car is so expensive and eco-friendly than it is more valuable as a combination Veblen good and virtue signal than as a reliable source of transportation.
  - ajross 7y ago
    > Or perhaps they’re still so supply-constrained that they haven’t run out of fanboys Tesla is approaching half a million cars sold in a year now. If your contention is that they have a problem because hundreds of thousands of drivers are deluded fanboys willing to overlook all their faults... I don't think it says what you think it does about the company.
    - philwelch 7y ago
      It might wear off if the cars are shoddily built and will not be reliable in the long term.
      - ajross 7y ago
        Now you've stacked up two hypotheticals to counter the point, though. That's might be true. It also might be true that the cars are of, on balance, very tolerable quality and that maintenance issues just aren't a driving factor in driver satisfaction. They're cars. Everyone loves their cars.
travisoneill1 7y ago
Being objective about it would be the press paying the same amount of attention to it as equivalent mistakes of other car companies, which is none. Minor Tesla quality issues seem to get press on par with the VW diesel scandal.