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It's literally illegal. There are laws against retaliation against whistleblowers. That is why it is surprising. > I don't understand the desire to stay with a

It's literally illegal. There are laws against retaliation against whistleblowers. That is why it is surprising. > I don't understand the desire to stay with a company and accept paychecks while simultaneously publicly denouncing and leading protests against them. Because you don't want to see the thing you worked so hard to build misused to build killer robots and "war minds"? Seems reasonable to me. Google's got a different mission and sometimes the leadership forgets it, and needs to be reminded.

kpU8efre7r 7y ago
What laws? Source for that please.
- KirinDave 7y ago
  Are you perhaps forgetting that this person was involved in organizing the women's march? Do I actually need to find a source for US law suggesting that retaliation against women reporting sexism is in fact illegal? This is basic compliance training for any US employment, and the EU has similar laws. Where do you live and work that you don't know this?
  - quibbler 7y ago
    Organizing the women's march is like reporting sexism? I don't think so.
    - KirinDave 7y ago
      Women can organize to protest sexist conditions. That's a protected activity in the US.
      - quibbler 7y ago
        So just participate in a woman's march, and you can never be fired anymore? That seems unlikely, and if true, very misguided.
- ameister14 7y ago
  https://lmgtfy.com/?q=corporate+whistleblower+protection+laws&s=g https://lmgtfy.com/?q=corporate+whistleblower+protection+law...
Merrill 7y ago
What did she do that is protected under the various whistleblower protection laws? https://www.whistleblowers.gov/sites/wb/files/2019-06/whistleblower_acts-desk_reference.pdf https://www.whistleblowers.gov/sites/wb/files/2019-06/whistl... I don't think that objecting to your company's AI work for DoD or plans to comply with Chinese internet search regulations fall under any of them. What did the "Open Research Group" at Google actually build?
- KirinDave 7y ago
  > What did the "Open Research Group" at Google actually build? Have you made any effort to investigate who Meredith Whittaker is on your own? Her work on AI ethics was much appreciated and celebrated precisely because she was a distinguished contributor. The cultural aversion to building weapons is not novel thing in that culture.
  - gdy 7y ago
    "Her work on AI ethics" What exactly was that?
    - departure 7y ago
      Do you not know how to use google? <https://ainowinstitute.org/research.html> https://ainowinstitute.org/research.html>
      - gdy 7y ago
        You missed the word 'exactly'. Can you summarize her work so that it doesn't sound trivial or bogus? Just looking at the titles I expect something similar in quality to articles debunked here: https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.09866 https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.09866
        KirinDave 7y ago
        So is the insinuation here that if she doesn't meet some arbitrary series of qualifications you put forth, it's okay for her to be illegally harassed out of her job? I'm reluctant to engage further because it seems like an absurd line of reasoning.
lm28469 7y ago
> It's literally illegal. There are laws against retaliation against whistleblowers. That is why it is surprising. There are many ways around the law. It happens everyday: "oopsie your team has to work on something else, double oopsie you're no working on AI anymore you'll just work on our CSV parser, that's were the money is these days. Ah ? What are you saying ? You don't want to work on that ? Well feel free to resign, we'll sign you a $200k check if you forget about it", &c.
joey_bob 7y ago
>Because you don't want to see the thing you worked so hard to build misused to build killer robots and "war minds"? Seems reasonable to me. Google's got a different mission and sometimes the leadership forgets it, and needs to be reminded. The question is not why would you publicly protest actions of your employer. The question is why would you expect, or even want, to work there while you do. Also, do whistleblower laws protect you from retaliation if what you're blowing the whistle on isn't illegal?
- KirinDave 7y ago
  The two women who claimed retaliation were organizers of the women's march. The common thread between them is that they were organizers of that event. The claims of retaliation fell shortly after that.
  - repolfx 7y ago
    But nothing Google has done in these cases is illegal. The protestors just didn't like it, so that shouldn't be protected actions.
    - KirinDave 7y ago
      This is untrue. You're not actually reading the salient facts. Radical reduction in job responsibility and opportunity IS retaliation.
      - tomxor 7y ago
        > Radical reduction in job responsibility and opportunity IS retaliation. Is that generally illegal in the US? if not then what specifically does the retaliation have to in response to to become illegal? e.g I would expect negative retaliation in response to poor quality work or slacking off etc, and would expect it to be legal. This person's actions would be considered intentional bad PR, so what specifically about retaliating to it is illegal? (Genuine question)
      - repolfx 7y ago
cushychicken 7y ago
>It's literally illegal. But, I'd imagine, exceptionally difficult for a complainant to prove.

kpU8efre7r 7y ago

What laws? Source for that please.

KirinDave 7y ago
Are you perhaps forgetting that this person was involved in organizing the women's march? Do I actually need to find a source for US law suggesting that retaliation against women reporting sexism is in fact illegal? This is basic compliance training for any US employment, and the EU has similar laws. Where do you live and work that you don't know this?
- quibbler 7y ago
  Organizing the women's march is like reporting sexism? I don't think so.
  - KirinDave 7y ago
    Women can organize to protest sexist conditions. That's a protected activity in the US.
    - quibbler 7y ago
      So just participate in a woman's march, and you can never be fired anymore? That seems unlikely, and if true, very misguided.
ameister14 7y ago
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=corporate+whistleblower+protection+laws&s=g https://lmgtfy.com/?q=corporate+whistleblower+protection+law...

Merrill 7y ago

What did she do that is protected under the various whistleblower protection laws? https://www.whistleblowers.gov/sites/wb/files/2019-06/whistleblower_acts-desk_reference.pdf https://www.whistleblowers.gov/sites/wb/files/2019-06/whistl... I don't think that objecting to your company's AI work for DoD or plans to comply with Chinese internet search regulations fall under any of them. What did the "Open Research Group" at Google actually build?

KirinDave 7y ago
> What did the "Open Research Group" at Google actually build? Have you made any effort to investigate who Meredith Whittaker is on your own? Her work on AI ethics was much appreciated and celebrated precisely because she was a distinguished contributor. The cultural aversion to building weapons is not novel thing in that culture.
- gdy 7y ago
  "Her work on AI ethics" What exactly was that?
  - departure 7y ago
    Do you not know how to use google? <https://ainowinstitute.org/research.html> https://ainowinstitute.org/research.html>
    - gdy 7y ago
      You missed the word 'exactly'. Can you summarize her work so that it doesn't sound trivial or bogus? Just looking at the titles I expect something similar in quality to articles debunked here: https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.09866 https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.09866
      - KirinDave 7y ago
        So is the insinuation here that if she doesn't meet some arbitrary series of qualifications you put forth, it's okay for her to be illegally harassed out of her job? I'm reluctant to engage further because it seems like an absurd line of reasoning.

lm28469 7y ago

> It's literally illegal. There are laws against retaliation against whistleblowers. That is why it is surprising. There are many ways around the law. It happens everyday: "oopsie your team has to work on something else, double oopsie you're no working on AI anymore you'll just work on our CSV parser, that's were the money is these days. Ah ? What are you saying ? You don't want to work on that ? Well feel free to resign, we'll sign you a $200k check if you forget about it", &c.

joey_bob 7y ago

>Because you don't want to see the thing you worked so hard to build misused to build killer robots and "war minds"? Seems reasonable to me. Google's got a different mission and sometimes the leadership forgets it, and needs to be reminded. The question is not why would you publicly protest actions of your employer. The question is why would you expect, or even want, to work there while you do. Also, do whistleblower laws protect you from retaliation if what you're blowing the whistle on isn't illegal?

KirinDave 7y ago
The two women who claimed retaliation were organizers of the women's march. The common thread between them is that they were organizers of that event. The claims of retaliation fell shortly after that.
- repolfx 7y ago
  But nothing Google has done in these cases is illegal. The protestors just didn't like it, so that shouldn't be protected actions.
  - KirinDave 7y ago
    This is untrue. You're not actually reading the salient facts. Radical reduction in job responsibility and opportunity IS retaliation.
    - tomxor 7y ago
      > Radical reduction in job responsibility and opportunity IS retaliation. Is that generally illegal in the US? if not then what specifically does the retaliation have to in response to to become illegal? e.g I would expect negative retaliation in response to poor quality work or slacking off etc, and would expect it to be legal. This person's actions would be considered intentional bad PR, so what specifically about retaliating to it is illegal? (Genuine question)
    - repolfx 7y ago

cushychicken 7y ago

>It's literally illegal. But, I'd imagine, exceptionally difficult for a complainant to prove.