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Keep in mind this is from cnbc - they consistently push an anti-tesla position https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/28/40-tesla-headlines-on-cnbc-in-2-days-31-neg

by taf2 7y ago

Keep in mind this is from cnbc - they consistently push an anti-tesla position https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/28/40-tesla-headlines-on-cnbc-in-2-days-31-negative-2-positive/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/28/40-tesla-headlines-on-c... https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/9b71x0/40_tesla_headlines_on_cnbc_in_2_days_31_negative/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/9b71x0/40_tesl... And for more insight google “why does cnbc hate tesla”

bagacrap 7y ago
It seems very Musk-y to paint Tesla as a victim like this. It's entirely possible that CNBC critiques all [tech] companies equally, or that Tesla actually deserves this scrutiny. Personally I feel like I see a lot more negative than positive mentions across all media. Given the way Musk handles bad press, deflects blame and plays fast and loose with safety, I tend to think it's deserved. Nice battery technology isn't enough to excuse their countless missteps.
adrr 7y ago
Can we get away from the logical fallacies here? If you have a problem with the facts in the article list them instead of attacking the author/publisher.
- loceng 7y ago
  I think it's valuable to know if a source is generally biased in one direction or another, whether there's accuracy in comparison to other major media sources - who knows, we unfortunately don't have a system that makes that easy and obvious, yet.
- jerf 7y ago
  I think people overestimate the fallaciousness of examining the motivations of the speaker. It only applies to the factual and logical matters; the fact that CNBC may or may not hate Tesla or Elon Musk does not affect whether or not tape was used to correct cracks in parts or whether or not people were asked to work in low-quality conditions on pain of firing, or any strictly logical conclusions you may draw from those facts. Those purported facts may be true or false, but whether someone at CNBC has it out for Elon is not a relevant consideration in whether those facts are true or false. However, it is entirely relevant in determining whether or not the slant of the piece is necessarily factual or whether it has bias, and in determining the probability that the speaker may have left out information unfavorable to the cause they are advancing. It is a logical fallacy, but it is only a logical fallacy. It is completely relevant in arenas other than pure, strict logic, such as meta-logical analyses about potential biases. (There's a few other "fallacies" for which this is true too; many of them like affirming the consequent are just straight-up errors, but "appeal to authority", for instance, is a fallacy in Aristotelian binary true/false logic, but in a more realistic probabilistic logic, it can be valid to use it to update your probabilistic beliefs about the world. You just are not logically justified in taking an authority and setting your belief in their statements to a true, mathematical 100.0000...% (which is what the fallacy would be in Aristotelian logic), and you are obligated to make judgments about the quality of the authority as you make the updates.)
  - Angostura 7y ago
    What makes you think that CNBC is particularly hard on Tesla?
    - nkoren 7y ago
      Anonymous anecdotes aside, the scandalous news they report is that Consumer Reports puts Tesla's reliability in the bottom half -- yes, shock and consernation, the BOTTOM HALF!!! -- of all automobile manufactures. Of course, 50% all automobile manufacturers are in the bottom half, and sure, it's not where you want to be. But none of the rest get special attention for being so. Want proof? Do a search for the the following: CNBC consumer reports reliability rating. What comes up? In order: 1. "Tesla Tanks": https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/tesla-tanks-subaru-soars-in-consumer-reports-new-reliability-survey.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/tesla-tanks-subaru-soars-in-... 2. "Tesla Slips": https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/tesla-reliability-slips-to-third-worst-in-us-consumer-reports-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/tesla-reliability-slips-to-t... 3. "Consumer reports yanks recommendation for Tesla": https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/reuters-america-update-2-consumer-reports-yanks-recommendation-for-teslas-model-3-citing-reliability.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/reuters-america-update-2-con... 4. "Tesla Falls": https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-falls-after-consumer-reports-yanks-its-reliability-ranking/ar-BBTUtWt https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-falls-after-... ..And so forth. Note, however, that we didn't search for "Tesla". The spotlight given them is CNBC's bias. There's an entire automobile industry out there, and at any given time, half of it is in the lower half of reliability ratings. But only one is ever given headlines for it. That's bias.
      - bildung 7y ago
        >* Anonymous anecdotes aside, the scandalous news they report is that Consumer Reports puts Tesla's reliability in the bottom half -- yes, shock and consernation, the BOTTOM HALF!!! -- of all automobile manufactures.* Actually Consumer Reports placed the Model S at the third-worst of 29 positions, so at the bottom 7%. "Tesla Slips" is actually a pretty mild headline, considering they slipped 6 spots and 8 was the technical maximum.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Problem is, with the fast paced nature of today's life you sometimes read a headline and MAYBE a tiny bit of extra info. Too many news outlets are using clickbait headlines that sound like a big deal but isn't.
Kiro 7y ago
And the HN crowd generally pushes a pro-Tesla position so it balances out. What I find more intriguing is how that aligns with the general "all companies are evil" sentiment I keep seeing here. Why are Tesla and SpaceX untouchable?
bildung 7y ago
This kind of reasoning is how conspiracy theorists are born. I've only looked for Toyota, but 7 out of 10 headlines at CNBC were equally critical of Toyota ("Toyota recalls", "Toyota struggles", ...). Here's an alternative theory: Perhaps you didn't pay much attention at how media works before, but now have a topic of interest with which you associate positive emotions (Tesla), and therefore suddenly the criticism becomes obvious to you - but only for this very topic. Your subconsciousness therefore has to alter it's previous mental model of the inner working of the media. But instead of throwing out the whole notion of the media being unbiased or neutral, your subconsciousness now just appends the new fact to the existing model: All media is fair and neutral, but not regarding Tesla. Kind of like a modified Gel-Mann amnesia effect. But actual conscious investigation would produce more evidence that the media is always more critical. After all, no news site ever had headlines like "Today, again, thousends of airplanes took of and landed without a single casuality." Just to be sure: This is not meant to sound condescending. It's just human. But the web makes it all too easy to find support for practically every idea ever, whether right or wrong. Which puts even more burden on us individually to observe our own internal heuristics.
navigatesol 7y ago
CNBC, who employs one of the biggest Tesla fans out there as an automoive journalist (Phil Lebeau) is against Tesla? Then you cite a reddit forum and CleanTechnica, whose "authors" disclose their financial interest in Tesla, something against the rules for journalists at a place like CNBC? These forums are getting astroturfed badly.

by taf2 7y ago

bagacrap 7y ago

It seems very Musk-y to paint Tesla as a victim like this. It's entirely possible that CNBC critiques all [tech] companies equally, or that Tesla actually deserves this scrutiny. Personally I feel like I see a lot more negative than positive mentions across all media. Given the way Musk handles bad press, deflects blame and plays fast and loose with safety, I tend to think it's deserved. Nice battery technology isn't enough to excuse their countless missteps.

adrr 7y ago

Can we get away from the logical fallacies here? If you have a problem with the facts in the article list them instead of attacking the author/publisher.

loceng 7y ago
I think it's valuable to know if a source is generally biased in one direction or another, whether there's accuracy in comparison to other major media sources - who knows, we unfortunately don't have a system that makes that easy and obvious, yet.
jerf 7y ago
I think people overestimate the fallaciousness of examining the motivations of the speaker. It only applies to the factual and logical matters; the fact that CNBC may or may not hate Tesla or Elon Musk does not affect whether or not tape was used to correct cracks in parts or whether or not people were asked to work in low-quality conditions on pain of firing, or any strictly logical conclusions you may draw from those facts. Those purported facts may be true or false, but whether someone at CNBC has it out for Elon is not a relevant consideration in whether those facts are true or false. However, it is entirely relevant in determining whether or not the slant of the piece is necessarily factual or whether it has bias, and in determining the probability that the speaker may have left out information unfavorable to the cause they are advancing. It is a logical fallacy, but it is only a logical fallacy. It is completely relevant in arenas other than pure, strict logic, such as meta-logical analyses about potential biases. (There's a few other "fallacies" for which this is true too; many of them like affirming the consequent are just straight-up errors, but "appeal to authority", for instance, is a fallacy in Aristotelian binary true/false logic, but in a more realistic probabilistic logic, it can be valid to use it to update your probabilistic beliefs about the world. You just are not logically justified in taking an authority and setting your belief in their statements to a true, mathematical 100.0000...% (which is what the fallacy would be in Aristotelian logic), and you are obligated to make judgments about the quality of the authority as you make the updates.)
- Angostura 7y ago
  What makes you think that CNBC is particularly hard on Tesla?
  - nkoren 7y ago
    Anonymous anecdotes aside, the scandalous news they report is that Consumer Reports puts Tesla's reliability in the bottom half -- yes, shock and consernation, the BOTTOM HALF!!! -- of all automobile manufactures. Of course, 50% all automobile manufacturers are in the bottom half, and sure, it's not where you want to be. But none of the rest get special attention for being so. Want proof? Do a search for the the following: CNBC consumer reports reliability rating. What comes up? In order: 1. "Tesla Tanks": https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/tesla-tanks-subaru-soars-in-consumer-reports-new-reliability-survey.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/tesla-tanks-subaru-soars-in-... 2. "Tesla Slips": https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/tesla-reliability-slips-to-third-worst-in-us-consumer-reports-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/tesla-reliability-slips-to-t... 3. "Consumer reports yanks recommendation for Tesla": https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/reuters-america-update-2-consumer-reports-yanks-recommendation-for-teslas-model-3-citing-reliability.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/reuters-america-update-2-con... 4. "Tesla Falls": https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-falls-after-consumer-reports-yanks-its-reliability-ranking/ar-BBTUtWt https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-falls-after-... ..And so forth. Note, however, that we didn't search for "Tesla". The spotlight given them is CNBC's bias. There's an entire automobile industry out there, and at any given time, half of it is in the lower half of reliability ratings. But only one is ever given headlines for it. That's bias.
    - bildung 7y ago
      >* Anonymous anecdotes aside, the scandalous news they report is that Consumer Reports puts Tesla's reliability in the bottom half -- yes, shock and consernation, the BOTTOM HALF!!! -- of all automobile manufactures.* Actually Consumer Reports placed the Model S at the third-worst of 29 positions, so at the bottom 7%. "Tesla Slips" is actually a pretty mild headline, considering they slipped 6 spots and 8 was the technical maximum.
aaomidi 7y ago
Problem is, with the fast paced nature of today's life you sometimes read a headline and MAYBE a tiny bit of extra info. Too many news outlets are using clickbait headlines that sound like a big deal but isn't.

Kiro 7y ago

And the HN crowd generally pushes a pro-Tesla position so it balances out. What I find more intriguing is how that aligns with the general "all companies are evil" sentiment I keep seeing here. Why are Tesla and SpaceX untouchable?

bildung 7y ago

This kind of reasoning is how conspiracy theorists are born. I've only looked for Toyota, but 7 out of 10 headlines at CNBC were equally critical of Toyota ("Toyota recalls", "Toyota struggles", ...). Here's an alternative theory: Perhaps you didn't pay much attention at how media works before, but now have a topic of interest with which you associate positive emotions (Tesla), and therefore suddenly the criticism becomes obvious to you - but only for this very topic. Your subconsciousness therefore has to alter it's previous mental model of the inner working of the media. But instead of throwing out the whole notion of the media being unbiased or neutral, your subconsciousness now just appends the new fact to the existing model: All media is fair and neutral, but not regarding Tesla. Kind of like a modified Gel-Mann amnesia effect. But actual conscious investigation would produce more evidence that the media is always more critical. After all, no news site ever had headlines like "Today, again, thousends of airplanes took of and landed without a single casuality." Just to be sure: This is not meant to sound condescending. It's just human. But the web makes it all too easy to find support for practically every idea ever, whether right or wrong. Which puts even more burden on us individually to observe our own internal heuristics.

navigatesol 7y ago

CNBC, who employs one of the biggest Tesla fans out there as an automoive journalist (Phil Lebeau) is against Tesla? Then you cite a reddit forum and CleanTechnica, whose "authors" disclose their financial interest in Tesla, something against the rules for journalists at a place like CNBC? These forums are getting astroturfed badly.